Long Covid

[zahir]

There are posts about long covid scattered around on other threads but I think it warrants a thread of its own. To kick off here’s a BMJ video that has a better discussion of it than I’ve seen elsewhere and tries to answer some of the questions I’ve been asking myself.

In this first of The BMJ’s covid-19 grand rounds, we focus on the phenomenon of “long covid”. Many patients who have relatively mild symptoms from the infection, continue to experience these long after the usual 12 day duration. For these patients, the post-acute syndrome has a significant impact on their lives, but many questions remain about its diagnosis, management and prognosis. To discuss long covid we are joined by Fiona Godless, editor in chief of The BMJ (chair) Paul Garner, professor of infectious diseases at Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine Nisreen Alwan, associate professor in public health at the University of Southampton Trisha Greenhalgh, professor of primary care at the University of Oxford Valentina Puntmann, associate professor at University Hospital Frankfurt Nicholas Peters, professor of cardiology at Imperial College London Tim Spector, professor of genetic epidemiology at Kings College London

This paper from Trisha Greenhalgh and others is mentioned In the video.

Management of post-acute covid-19 in primary care

### What you need to know Post-acute covid-19 (“long covid”) seems to be a multisystem disease, sometimes occurring after a relatively mild acute illness.1 Clinical management requires a whole-patient perspective.2 This article, intended for primary care clinicians, relates to the patient who...

www.bmj.com

 

[Mation]

See also:
Ceiling covid
Bucket covid


(Sorry )

 

[zahir]

Children and long covid.

As Child Covid Cases Rise, Doctors Watch for Potential Long-Term Effects

Most child cases of Covid are mild. But some kids have longer-term symptoms such as headaches, shortness of breath and gastrointestinal problems.

www.wsj.com

 

[zahir]

This is one of the better personal accounts I’ve seen, from Jake Suett a doctor with long covid. He tested negative for both the PCR and antibody tests. Dr Jake Suett (@jakesuett) on Twitter

 

[zahir]

Health care workers with long covid.

Health Care Professionals with Long Covid: Have they been forgotten? - Evidence-Based Nursing blog

This week’s Blog is written by our Editor-in-Chief Alison Twycross (@alitwy) and Dr Jake Suett, a staff grade doctor in Intensive Care, (@jakesuett) who both have suspected “Long Covid”. In the Blog they discuss what Long Covid is and discuss some of the employment related issues health care...

blogs.bmj.com

 

[Mation]

Health care workers with long covid.

Health Care Professionals with Long Covid: Have they been forgotten? - Evidence-Based Nursing blog

This week’s Blog is written by our Editor-in-Chief Alison Twycross (@alitwy) and Dr Jake Suett, a staff grade doctor in Intensive Care, (@jakesuett) who both have suspected “Long Covid”. In the Blog they discuss what Long Covid is and discuss some of the employment related issues health care...

blogs.bmj.com

Throughout the pandemic, positive test results and deaths due to COVID-19 have been reported and have been how the damage caused by this virus has been communicated and measured. Unlike deaths due to COVID-19, the number of people living with the debilitating effects of Long Covid are not currently being recorded. This was highlighted in a BMJ Blog by @Dr2NisreenAlwan who stated “Death is not the only thing to count in this pandemic, we must count lives changed. We still know very little about COVID-19, but we do know that we cannot fight what we do not measure.” We urgently need to record the number of people who are being left with long-term effects of COVID-19, both to help those individuals and to inform ourselves of the real risks of the disease.

Is this something the ZOE app is using its data for?

 

[sheothebudworths]

Wrong thread! (To clarify, I meant that I had posted on the wrong thread! )

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Is this something the ZOE app is using its data for?

Yes

 

[Mation]

Yes

That's good. I haven't been using it, but might start.

zahir do you know if any of these kinds of data have been collected internationally?

 

[prunus]

This is one of the better personal accounts I’ve seen, from Jake Suett a doctor with long covid. He tested negative for both the PCR and antibody tests. Dr Jake Suett (@jakesuett) on Twitter

If he hasn’t tested positive for either virus or antibodies why does he think it’s long Covid specifically rather than some other chronic disorder, ME for instance?

 

[zahir]

If he hasn’t tested positive for either virus or antibodies why does he think it’s long Covid specifically rather than some other chronic disorder, ME for instance?

Maybe because everything else fits with covid and he took the PCR test four weeks after the start of symptoms when it would be very unlikely to give a positive result anyway.

 

[zahir]

zahir do you know if any of these kinds of data have been collected internationally?

It’s hard to imagine that data isn’t being collected but I don’t know any details.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

What is Long Covid, what are the symptoms and what help is there? | ITV News

The effects of Long Covid are far reaching, with a vast array of symptoms encompassing both physical and neurological that drag into weeks and often months. | ITV National News

www.itv.com

 

[Miss-Shelf]

We have heard your message about long covid and we will act, says WHO - The BMJ

A few weeks ago, we wrote a BMJ Opinion piece about the long term impacts of covid and called for patients’ experiences of long covid to be included in any [...]More...

blogs.bmj.com

 

[Miss-Shelf]

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Long-Haulers Are Redefining COVID-19

Without understanding the lingering illness that some patients experience, we can’t understand the pandemic.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Long listen but useful to understand the interface with patient led peer groups and an all party parliamentary group

 

[The way forward]

I am a 59 year old male w/type1 diabetes. I do not have a doctorate but I do have many years of natural health practice behind me. I am frustrated with People not believing me. I have a job that takes me around the U.S. and I am exposed to most everything. Feb 1st thru 4th I was working above Boston and started feeling the flu symptoms I took what I normally do it did nothing. I racked my brain that night and realized I still had H2O2 food grade sitting at home unused for 6yrs when I arrived home next day I immediately tried 6 drops in 12 oz H2O I felt better within 5 min I have taken it now Daily for 7 months the ideal amount is 9 drops in 12 oz H20 always dilute the H202 ! The only time i was fearful of the covid was when i had a trip and forgot the H202 no symptoms the first three days then I almost started panicking cough developed and I could feel my breathing becoming faster as soon as I arrived home I took a dose of H202 and all symptoms stopped within 5 min. This treatment could save multiple people a gallon costs about 50 dollars and contains 78000 to 90000 drops depending on the web site. yes we could easily put this on the back burner and go back to our regular lives . one caveat beware of the potential of a herxheimer reaction please research.









0

 

[existentialist]

I am a 59 year old male w/type1 diabetes. I do not have a doctorate but I do have many years of natural health practice behind me. I am frustrated with People not believing me. I have a job that takes me around the U.S. and I am exposed to most everything. Feb 1st thru 4th I was working above Boston and started feeling the flu symptoms I took what I normally do it did nothing. I racked my brain that night and realized I still had H2O2 food grade sitting at home unused for 6yrs when I arrived home next day I immediately tried 6 drops in 12 oz H2O I felt better within 5 min I have taken it now Daily for 7 months the ideal amount is 9 drops in 12 oz H20 always dilute the H202 ! The only time i was fearful of the covid was when i had a trip and forgot the H202 no symptoms the first three days then I almost started panicking cough developed and I could feel my breathing becoming faster as soon as I arrived home I took a dose of H202 and all symptoms stopped within 5 min. This treatment could save multiple people a gallon costs about 50 dollars and contains 78000 to 90000 drops depending on the web site. yes we could easily put this on the back burner and go back to our regular lives . one caveat beware of the potential of a herxheimer reaction please research.









0

I'll be very interested to see the clinical study demonstrating the beneficial effects of hydrogen peroxide on whatever the disease was that these "flu symptoms" represented. I suppose an interesting start might be to confirm that it was actually Covid-19: I presume you got a test?

Otherwise,

Also, have you googled "psychosomatic illness"?

 

[Chilli.s]

From the USA... Hydrogen peroxide (H202) as a health tonic/cure all! I suppose if you have no easy access to healthcare then it could be tempting. Even The Sun and The Mail have warned against this though.

 

[The way forward]

I'll be very interested to see the clinical study demonstrating the beneficial effects of hydrogen peroxide on whatever the disease was that these "flu symptoms" represented. I suppose an interesting start might be to confirm that it was actually Covid-19: I presume you got a test?

Otherwise,

Also, have you googled "psychosomatic illness"?

 

[The way forward]

If you watched The first video above It stated that if you had lost the sense of smell and taste then there is no need for the test . That was then backed up by a second Dr! Last study. [Virus inactivation by hydrogen peroxide] - PubMed from 1977 Russia many versions ago though. Why would I subject myself to that test that is known for false Postives. You sound like many others that think without the proper Ids I could not Possibly be telling the truth. Hopefully someone who needs it will see it try it and spread the good news.

 

[editor]

If you watched The first video above It stated that if you had lost the sense of smell and taste then there is no need for the test . That was then backed up by a second Dr! Last study. [Virus inactivation by hydrogen peroxide] - PubMed from 1977 Russia many versions ago though. Why would I subject myself to that test that is known for false Postives. You sound like many others that think without the proper Ids I could not Possibly be telling the truth. Hopefully someone who needs it will see it try it and spread the good news.

Exactly what are you medical qualifications? Why should anyone pay attention to a half century old Russian report? Where's the current data that backs up your theory? Please produce it now.

 

[frogwoman]

That well known illness COVID-1977

 

[The way forward]

From the USA... Hydrogen peroxide (H202) as a health tonic/cure all! I suppose if you have no easy access to healthcare then it could be tempting. Even The Sun and The Mail have warned against this though.

Not a Cure all I used to take H2O2 for Cancer Prevention and found the side benefit of it adding O2 to my system Thus my cycling times were faster WoHo.

 

[existentialist]

Not a Cure all I used to take H2O2 for Cancer Prevention and found the side benefit of it adding O2 to my system Thus my cycling times were faster WoHo.

You should be aware that a lot of people on here are pretty intolerant of "woo". At the moment, you are sounding very similar to the typical merchants of woo that sometimes (briefly) wander by here.

 

[The way forward]

You should be aware that a lot of people on here are pretty intolerant of "woo". At the moment, you are sounding very similar to the typical merchants of woo that sometimes (briefly) wander by here.

O well i tried. Have a good life.

 

[The way forward]

The H2O2 is available from health food stores.

 

[elbows]

The H2O2 is available from health food stores.

Yes and they have to put the following sorts of disclaimers in so they can tread the line of quackery without making promises that are unproven, but are still winking knowingly at their customers who are in possession of the special quack miracle knowledge.

The use of Hydrogen Peroxide as a bio-oxidative therapy is highly controversial and we cannot endorse it. There have been many books written about Hydrogen Peroxide internal/oral use, of which some claim that it has the ability to cure many ailments and diseases. Hydrogen Peroxide should not be considered as a miracle cure, but it is indeed a very useful substance with dozens of legitimate uses.

If you are considering following one of the many H2O2 protocols that can be found on the web, we strongly recommend that you contact your healthcare professional or a licensed practitioner with experience using H2O2 for therapeutic purposes.

 

[zahir]

New government guidance.

[Withdrawn] Coronavirus (COVID-19): long-term health effects

www.gov.uk

Around 10% of mild coronavirus (COVID-19) cases who were not admitted to hospital have reported symptoms lasting more than 4 weeks. A number of hospitalised cases reported continuing symptoms for 8 or more weeks following discharge.

Persistent health problems reported following acute COVID-19 disease include:

• respiratory symptoms and conditions such as chronic cough, shortness of breath, lung inflammation and fibrosis, and pulmonary vascular disease
• cardiovascular symptoms and disease such as chest tightness, acute myocarditis and heart failure
• protracted loss or change of smell and taste
• mental health problems including depression, anxiety and cognitive difficulties
• inflammatory disorders such as myalgia, multisystem inflammatory syndrome, Guillain-Barre syndrome, or neuralgic amyotrophy
• gastrointestinal disturbance with diarrhoea
• continuing headaches
• fatigue, weakness and sleeplessness
• liver and kidney dysfunction
• clotting disorders and thrombosis
• lymphadenopathy
• skin rashes

Research to evaluate the long-term health and psychosocial effects of COVID-19 is continuing. Major studies include the Post-Hospitalisation COVID-19 study (PHOSP-COVID) in the UK and the International Severe Acute Respiratory and emerging Infection Consortium (ISARIC) global COVID-19 long-term follow-up study.

Patients recovering from COVID-19 infection should speak to their GP about local care pathways for support and assessment of any long-term symptoms or health problems. Healthcare providers can also refer patients to the online COVID recovery programme.

The NHS has produced guidance for primary care and community health services to meet the immediate and longer-term care needs of patients discharged following an acute episode of COVID-19.