London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[ViolentPanda]

If it didn't happen, they can't stitch anyone up with it. If it did, they'll have to provide evidence. I can't see how anything would be any different with or without these claims being made.

You have to look at the claims as part of a spectrum of propaganda, rather than as a single issue. The balls, like the "policeman pulled from his horse and beaten" claim (you know, the klutz whose tack slipped), the "class war activists" and the "street gangs" are pieces in a jigsaw of bullshit put out to rouse the media to the state's defence. The government and the police know they won't be able to provide evidence, but they hope (and it's usually the case) that by the time they're called to account for lying, people will no longer be interested in what happened, or why.

 

[ymu]

You have to look at the claims as part of a spectrum of propaganda, rather than as a single issue. The balls, like the "policeman pulled from his horse and beaten" claim (you know, the klutz whose tack slipped), the "class war activists" and the "street gangs" are pieces in a jigsaw of bullshit put out to rouse the media to the state's defence. The government and the police know they won't be able to provide evidence, but they hope (and it's usually the case) that by the time they're called to account for lying, people will no longer be interested in what happened, or why.

It is fairly clear from the videos that the copper was pushed off - not beaten, that was the horse - but he was pushed and they nabbed the people who pushed him at the time. I see no reason to deny that this happened. If the snooker balls are a myth, I don't really see how it makes any difference one way or the other. It doesn't alter the narrative on either side.

Anyways ... tech tools for activists (secure communications etc) looks to be a handy resource in these troubled times.

 

[frogwoman]

I'm not quite with you here. The protests here aren't BNP or EDL or whatever either even if people do try to piggyback - and I'll repeat that I'm not saying this instance is part of any sort of organised campaign, even if it's organised by an EDL supporter who tried to lie about its credentials, I'm making a general point that you can't just uncritically say "whoever".

Yeah Im not talking about all the anti-cuts protests, Im talking about this specific one, fair play if people still want to go and protest on the day despite the fact the edl may have organised etc tho but i think that and the strike thing is a different thing entirely, and im not uncritically saying "whoever" im saying that it is right to be cautious tbh even if that dont stop you going at the end of the day

 

[revlon]

I heard christmas tree baubles full of paint where thrown, isn't it possibility that someone mistook a flying bauble for a snooker ball.

i'm told to get the protestors hyped up before the demo the anarchist leaders showed everyone 'scum' the night before. I definitely heard at least two gangs from wood green shouting where ya tool.

 

[TopCat]

If snooker balls were thrown they would have been displayed on the TV by the police.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

If snooker balls were thrown they would have been displayed on the TV by the police.

Unfortunately they were thwarted as crack squads of snooker referees recovered the offending items and gave them a quick polish.

Louis MacNeice

 

[JimW]

If you want to know the future, imagine a pair of white-gloved hands squeezing your balls forever.

 

[The Black Hand]

In response to the right and far right filling up newspaper letters pages, & on the web comments sections and messagesboards here is a progressive letter from todays Northern Echo letters pages.

Its important for activists to counter the right who give the misleading impression that there are more of them by their tactics aimed at the regional press.

Instead of taking so much time talking 24/7 to the converted/each other on eg. U75, activists would better spend their time aiming their efforts at the general public in different arenas;

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/features/letters/8741907.Student_protests/

HEAR All Sides, December 14, was a sorry mix of mostly right wing and reactionary nonsense.

Take Des Moore, a correspondent who knows nothing of what is happening on the left or in the universities.

Moore blames the Socialist Workers Party for the student protests, but the SWP is a spent force, a pale imitation of what it was. The emerging protest movement is clearly autonomous and anarchist inspired.

Further, Moore calls protestors “left wing fascists”, but he knows that the left fought against fascism and Nazism very effectively.

Lawrence McGowan bemoans the lack of “respect”, but lacking respect is not a criminal offence.

Certainly, the lying politicians and the police, who nearly killed a protestor with a truncheon blow to his skull, do not deserve any.

Finally, Nigel Boddy, whose limp calls for campaigners to support minor regional parties and the Greens totally fails to confront the crisis in legitimacy and democracy that lets the rich pay no tax and tries to make us pay for the crisis the banks caused.

Trevor Bark

 

[ViolentPanda]

It is fairly clear from the videos that the copper was pushed off - not beaten, that was the horse - but he was pushed and they nabbed the people who pushed him at the time. I see no reason to deny that this happened.

I've sen people pulled from the saddle before, and one thing that never happens is that the saddle's girth strap miraculously comes loose at exactly the same time. Have a look at the clips again. The copper's saddle is moving even before the protesters get anywhere near him. For all we know, the daft fuckers were trying to stop the mountie cunt falling.
There's just no way that the saddle would have slipped as a result of the copper being pushed/pulled from the horse, hence my insistence that he was the author of his own misfortune.

If the snooker balls are a myth, I don't really see how it makes any difference one way or the other. It doesn't alter the narrative on either side.

It makes a difference because "the protesters" (you know, that big homogeneous mass who aren't at all a loose assemblage of heterogeneous individualists!) are then left trying to prove a negative in the eyes of "the public".

 

[ViolentPanda]

In response to the right and far right filling up newspaper letters pages, & on the web comments sections and messagesboards here is a progressive letter from todays Northern Echo letters pages.

Its important for activists to counter the right who give the misleading impression that there are more of them by their tactics aimed at the regional press.

Instead of taking so much time talking 24/7 to the converted/each other on eg. U75, activists would better spend their time aiming their efforts at the general public in different arenas;

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/features/letters/8741907.Student_protests/

HEAR All Sides, December 14, was a sorry mix of mostly right wing and reactionary nonsense.

Take Des Moore, a correspondent who knows nothing of what is happening on the left or in the universities.

Moore blames the Socialist Workers Party for the student protests, but the SWP is a spent force, a pale imitation of what it was. The emerging protest movement is clearly autonomous and anarchist inspired.

Further, Moore calls protestors “left wing fascists”, but he knows that the left fought against fascism and Nazism very effectively.

Lawrence McGowan bemoans the lack of “respect”, but lacking respect is not a criminal offence.

Certainly, the lying politicians and the police, who nearly killed a protestor with a truncheon blow to his skull, do not deserve any.

Finally, Nigel Boddy, whose limp calls for campaigners to support minor regional parties and the Greens totally fails to confront the crisis in legitimacy and democracy that lets the rich pay no tax and tries to make us pay for the crisis the banks caused.

Trevor Bark

Interesting. You screamed like a stuck pig when I posted your christian name and salutation while conversing with you on a thread, ranting about who could be reading it, and I graciously conceded to editing it out, and then you "out" yourself.

Hypocrite, much? Or are you just stupid?

 

[The Black Hand]

TIt head, as usual you don't get the game. If you read the post again (carefully this time) I never said that it was mine.

Thanks for less than nothing reactionary nonsense as usual.

Interesting. You screamed like a stuck pig when I posted your christian name and salutation while conversing with you on a thread, ranting about who could be reading it, and I graciously conceded to editing it out, and then you "out" yourself.

Hypocrite, much? Or are you just stupid?

 

[The39thStep]

In response to the right and far right filling up newspaper letters pages, & on the web comments sections and messagesboards here is a progressive letter from todays Northern Echo letters pages.

Its important for activists to counter the right who give the misleading impression that there are more of them by their tactics aimed at the regional press.

Instead of taking so much time talking 24/7 to the converted/each other on eg. U75, activists would better spend their time aiming their efforts at the general public in different arenas;

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/features/letters/8741907.Student_protests/

HEAR All Sides, December 14, was a sorry mix of mostly right wing and reactionary nonsense.

Take Des Moore, a correspondent who knows nothing of what is happening on the left or in the universities.

Moore blames the Socialist Workers Party for the student protests, but the SWP is a spent force, a pale imitation of what it was. The emerging protest movement is clearly autonomous and anarchist inspired.

Further, Moore calls protestors “left wing fascists”, but he knows that the left fought against fascism and Nazism very effectively.

Lawrence McGowan bemoans the lack of “respect”, but lacking respect is not a criminal offence.

Certainly, the lying politicians and the police, who nearly killed a protestor with a truncheon blow to his skull, do not deserve any.

Finally, Nigel Boddy, whose limp calls for campaigners to support minor regional parties and the Greens totally fails to confront the crisis in legitimacy and democracy that lets the rich pay no tax and tries to make us pay for the crisis the banks caused.

Trevor Bark

Its very encouraging to see such a progressive letter and discover a new and innovative way to take the message directly to the heart of the public.

 

[dennisr]

Its very encouraging to see such a progressive letter and discover a new and innovative way to take the message directly to the heart of the public.

indeed - i guess the word is "challenging"

 

[DRINK?]

I've sen people pulled from the saddle before, and one thing that never happens is that the saddle's girth strap miraculously comes loose at exactly the same time. Have a look at the clips again. The copper's saddle is moving even before the protesters get anywhere near him. For all we know, the daft fuckers were trying to stop the mountie cunt falling.
There's just no way that the saddle would have slipped as a result of the copper being pushed/pulled from the horse, hence my insistence that he was the author of his own misfortune.

It makes a difference because "the protesters" (you know, that big homogeneous mass who aren't at all a loose assemblage of heterogeneous individualists!) are then left trying to prove a negative in the eyes of "the public".

I would concur, looks about right

 

[kabbes]

I can't see the videoclip but I agree with VP's assessment if it is how he describes it. A girth doesn't just come undone if it is properly done up. You have to get right next to the horse and pull the straps UP to unbuckle it.

 

[Streathamite]

I can't see the videoclip but I agree with VP's assessment if it is how he describes it. A girth doesn't just come undone if it is properly done up. You have to get right next to the horse and pull the straps UP to unbuckle it.

absolutely true. And given that saddling is such a basic skill, you'd have to wonder about the ability of a copper who can't even get that right.

 

[Streathamite]

The police are also subject to the law just like anyone else,

oh bollocks! Have you seen how much harder it is to get justice in the case of misconduct, than it is in the case of practically anyone else?

 

[Streathamite]

pm me the details of your membership - meetings - people (names of..) those you met.
I'll check thias out for you and confirm - lets see if you are telling the truth.

Its a chance to prove your honesty. If you cannot you will - of course - be fucked.

Dennis, this clown wasn't sure if he was in the SP or SPGB!

 

[shaman75]

throw a fire extinguisher off a building - attempted murder

club a student so hard he has to have brain surgery - not even a manhunt

whack and push an unarmed man to the ground causing him to have a heart attack - ticking off at work

what's the view on this push?

38 seconds - protester is sent flying by a copper.

 

[The Black Hand]

throw a fire extinguisher off a building - attempted murder

club a student so hard he has to have brain surgery - not even a manhunt

whack and push an unarmed man to the ground causing him to have a heart attack - ticking off at work

what's the view on this push?

38 seconds - protester is sent flying by a copper.

REally good shaman75 - the contradications in class struggles intensify. Here's Ian Bone on the troubles and troubles to come thinking somewhat similarly;

I went down to Scotland Yard yesterday in solidarity with Alfie Meadows. The overkill of cops was incredible……..tube stationexits closed, wall to wall riot van for a hundred yards.Top cop promising a ‘more robust approach’ – that’s more robust than nearly killing Alfie and tipping Jody out of his wheelchair. More robust means snatch squads on demos, zero tolerance for mask wearers, using SUS laws to stop Cameron’s ‘feral’ ( black!) youths arriving at demos,……….and on and on aided and abetted by a complaisant press. But the top cops know they can’t deliver on this. Last week a tiny demo by ‘youth March for jobs’ (groan) was similarly over policed.Everytime aa Facebook flash mob is promoted hundreds of cops are dispatched for fear of getting it wrong again……….hundreds more outside parliament yesterday. This is draining cops from local areas and costing an unsustainable fortune. The cops themselves are divided at the top – Sir Hugh Orde says the police ‘must not be seen as an arm of the state’ – when have they been anything fucking else? Some cops are wanting water cannon and a ban on marches while another on telly yesterday mused ‘Is nearly killing a young student for a few broken windows and graffitti worth it?’ These divisions will exacerbate under political pressure. Leave alone anything else happening – and it will – the run up to the massive TUC demo on March 26th will be greeted by an hysterical press. Over 500,000 on the TUC march maybe – how will they police that and the thousands of kids and shadowy anarchists lurking with intent on thhe fringes beyod control of the TUC stewards. You can forsee the evening Standard headlines and botched squat raids the days before even now. The quality of police intelligence is extremely low and comes mostly from monitoring websites but now without the political nous to distinguish what’s real and what aint. The shadow of March 26th is going to keep them jumpy – another fuck up here and heads will certainly role. Our strugle may take a breather over Christmas but will return in January.It’s still all to play for – and the monlith opposing us is cracking and creaking. Kick it till it breaks. The TUC must be shitting themselves – they’re about to organise the biggest riot in our history!!!!

 

[The Black Hand]

Its very encouraging to see such a progressive letter and discover a new and innovative way to take the message directly to the heart of the public.

You're only jealous cos I get mine published and yours end up in the trash

 

[The Black Hand]

indeed - i guess the word is "challenging"

You're only jealous cos I get mine published and yours end up in the trash...

 

[butchersapron]

The black hand, there's bigger issues at play here. Cut this out.

 

[winjer]

if the legal observers at these protests were more concerned about methodological evidence collection then they could have had some good legal actions by now.

So, now you're libelling legal observers as well. Let's have it then, explain just how unconcerned we are with methodological evidence collection?

 

[shaman75]

Everytime aa Facebook flash mob is promoted hundreds of cops are dispatched for fear of getting it wrong again……….hundreds more outside parliament yesterday. This is draining cops from local areas and costing an unsustainable fortune.

I wonder what would happen if everyone started creating protest events on facebook left, right and centre, with all the lists of people invited, attending etc... hidden from view?

How will they manage to cope with 20 or more protests which may or may not even happen, when their main intelligence seems to come from facebook?

 

[moon23]

- yep, that bits fair enough - but 'stitched up by the swappies in a meeting down the road' would be more accurate

Well I was about 17 and had gone along to the local town hall in a solidarity protest for some workers who were being unfairly sacked. There were 2 of us there from the Socialist Party, myself and my mate Johnny. We were heckled by the other 'Comrades' there from the SWP who called us splitters etc. I was just a kid, I didn't even know the bloody history of secularism amongst the left.

I despaired a bit after that, Johnny stormed off saying it was bollocks when there were only a handful of us and we couldn’t even protest together in solidarity. He had a good point.

 

[TopCat]

So your experiences in the Socialist Party turned you into a Tory supporting Liberal? It happens I guess.

 

[butchersapron]

Well I was about 17 and had gone along to the local town hall in a solidarity protest for some workers who were being unfairly sacked. There were 2 of us there from the Socialist Party, myself and my mate Johnny. We were heckled by the other 'Comrades' there from the SWP who called us splitters etc. I was just a kid, I didn't even know the bloody history of secularism amongst the left.

I despaired a bit after that, Johnny stormed off saying it was bollocks when there were only a handful of us and we couldn’t even protest together in solidarity. He had a good point.

They called you no such thing. And, you're making it up. No such thing took place.

 

[TopCat]

It does sound rather sus eh? I have never heard SWP types calling anyone "splitters". Only time I have heard that expression was in the Life of Brian...

 

[frogwoman]

that sounds VERY unlikely moon