London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[ViolentPanda]

This edl/far right stuff is well ropey. Calm down.

It's ropey, but that doesn't mean the daft cunts won't latch onto it, unfortunately.

 

[past caring]

We could also do without people on our side giving it more credence than it deserves. Yes, it might be worth watching out for, but I doubt the EDL have either the brains or the bravery or the ambition to pull off a little stunt like that.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

It's ropey, but that doesn't mean the daft cunts won't latch onto it, unfortunately.

I agree. The shite they've been posting on their forums etc, but without plod protection they wouldn't have the bollocks imo.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

but I doubt the EDL have either the brains or the bravery or the ambition to pull off a little stunt like that.

Yep.

 

[shaman75]

The Lords are voting on fees tonight. Live feed for the debate: http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=7201

A mob are gathering, if anyone can get there.

It's refreshing to see some proper discussions/ statements rather than the defensive shite in the commons

 

[Brainaddict]

Does anyone know the probability of enough rebellion in the Lords to send it back?

 

[shaman75]

10 new images released by met.

http://cms.met.police.uk/news/appea...connection_with_serious_disorder_and_violence

 

[ymu]

Does anyone know the probability of enough rebellion in the Lords to send it back?

I would think reasonably likely, especially since there have been some concerns raised over the BIS modelling of winners/losers (report on www.falseeconomy.org.uk).

 

[shaman75]

i hope they send it back

 

[butchersapron]

Does anyone know the probability of enough rebellion in the Lords to send it back?

None, esp now that labour have made it a bill killing vote.

 

[ymu]

Public_uni are tweeting summaries of the debate.

# Lords: We will get the worst of American system without the safeguards 3 minutes ago via web

Lords: Browne view that education is a private good and not a public value is mistaken 4 minutes ago via web

Lords: government legislation will be highly damaging 5 minutes ago via web

Lords: Unfair to low and middle income graduates 6 minutes ago via web

Following @public_uni tweets on Lords fees debate. For the first time in my life I <3 the aristocratic unelected House; a strange feeling. 12 minutes ago via Tweetie for Mac Retweeted by public_uni

Lords: In effect repayments become a graduate tax of 9 per cent 9 minutes ago via web

LOrds: 50 per cent of graduates will never pay-off their debts 10 minutes ago via web

Lords:reservations - Sutton trust shows that sharp increase will deter students 11 minutes ago via web

Lords: proposed scheme more progressive than current system 13 minutes ago via web

Bp Lincoln: This is a crass form of instrumentalism. Human development is about history, geography and philosophy too... 18 minutes ago via web

Bp Lincoln: Education is not about individuals and commodities. Let us hear no more about student choice and markets

 

[claphamboy]

I would think reasonably likely

Very unlikely IMO.

 

[ymu]

I think it will be pretty tight. Lots of cross-benchers in there ... which makes it tough to predict. But there is a question over whether the House was misled. The BIS figures were based on inaccurate demographics and some odd assumptions, and the superficially similar IFS analysis assumed that they meant £21k in 2012, when it's actually £21k in 2016. If these points are raised forcefully, I'd think there's a very good chance that it'll be bounced back.

Govt majority in the Lords is only 40. Govt majority in the Commons fell from 84 to 21. It's not an outlandish possibility at all.

 

[gawkrodger]

10 new images released by met.

http://cms.met.police.uk/news/appea...connection_with_serious_disorder_and_violence

good luck with half of 'em! #19 especially

 

[butchersapron]

The vote is not to bounce it back it's to effectively veto it. That's why it will pass.

 

[ymu]

The Lords have a power of veto? I thought that'd long gone? Every time they've done anything in the last century the govt has taken a bit more of their power away ...

Got a link?

 

[butchersapron]

They can introduce a fatal amendment which means the original legislation has to be introduced to the commons again. They never work. A handful of times in history. (This one isn't designed to work either). That's what they'll be voting on tonight.

 

[dylans]

good luck with half of 'em! #19 especially

#28 must be shitting himself

 

[DotCommunist]

They can introduce a fatal amendment which means the original legislation has to be introduced to the commons again. They never work. A handful of times in history. (This one isn't designed to work either). That's what they'll be voting on tonight.

do you mean the amendments never enough to get it bounced back downstairs or that even when it is, it is passed again and kicked back upstairs?

 

[butchersapron]

Nope - there's two separate things here. The normal vote on the commons Bill that allows the Lords to bounce it back if its defeated and a fatal amendment that means, if passed, the bill is effectively killed and needs to be re-introduced in the commons.

 

[DotCommunist]

right, I see. If they can pass a bill with an amendment that means the original purpose is diluted to uselessness , the commons gov would have to re-introduce it or give up on the bill. No wonder it doesn't work very often then.

 

[ymu]

Debate finished. Vote now, presumably.

 

[WWWeed]

We have received a considerable number of complaints about an interview Ben Brown did last night on the BBC News Channel with Jody McIntyre. The context of the interview was that Mr McIntyre was on the student demonstrations in London last week and video emerged yesterday of him being pulled out of his wheelchair by police.

I am aware that there is a web campaign encouraging people to complain to the BBC about the interview, the broad charge being that Ben Brown was too challenging in it. However I am genuinely interested in hearing more from people who have complained about why they object to the interview. I would obviously welcome all other views.

I have reviewed the interview a few times and I would suggest that we interviewed Mr McIntyre in the same way that we would have questioned any other interviewee in the same circumstances: it was quite a long interview and Mr McIntyre was given several minutes of airtime to make a range of points, which he did forcefully; Ben challenged him politely but robustly on his assertions.

Mr McIntyre says during the interview that "personally he sees himself equal to anyone else" and we interviewed Mr McIntyre as we would interview anyone else in his position. Comments more than welcome.

Kevin Bakhurst is the controller of the BBC News Channel and the BBC News at One and the deputy head of the BBC Newsroom.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2010/12/interview_with_jody_mcintyre.html#comments

 

[ymu]

Triesman amendment: defeated

 

[twentythreedom]

ahem.. may i quote a letter from today's evening standard, i am sure the author speaks for us all...

"of course, water cannons (sic - what a div, eh?) would be used selectively. they would be aimed exclusively at those seeking to cause trouble. it would incapacitate their mobile phones and be more effective than any amount of kettling. no-one would get hurt - they would just get unpleasantly cold and wet and go home. and they would not disrupt demonstrations again in a hurry"

hear, hear!!

 

[butchersapron]

What was that 70+ votes safe? No chance ever.

 

[ymu]

What was that 70+ votes safe? No chance ever.

I couldn't hear the numbers - shit audio on my laptop. I *think* they're voting on the main bill now.

 

[ymu]

No - Triesman's second amendment now.

 

[butchersapron]

The govt had a majority of 68 on the real vote. The main bill vote is now irrelevant.

 

[The Black Hand]

In this pic we can clearly see the orange/red epaulette of an Police Inspector. They would be a particular target in future I think.

Yes indeed.