London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[Lock&Light]

Atlee was more important. Or even some Generals. Churchill just made some speeches. Soldiers showed what they thought of him in the 1945 election. They told him to fuck off.

They told the Tories to fuck off. There is no doubt that Churchill was extremeley popular with all, including the troops, throughout the War.

 

[belboid]

Bullshit

 

[Lock&Light]

Phew. For a moment there I thought I might have posted bullshit. But then belboid pointed out that I hadn't.

 

[belboid]

I gave exactly as much evidence for my post as you did for yours.

The fact that Churchill was thrown out when he expected to win is undeniable tho

 

[goldenecitrone]

LOL, just read it was Dave Gilmour's boy swinging off the Cenotaph - says he was tripping on acid... multi-millionaire's son fucking it up for people genuinely unable to pay for Uni...

He was just rebelling against his old man. 'We all need free education'.

 

[ymu]

Isnt there now a right to recall your MP? ....not happy and theres enough of you ...change it at the ballot box .......

Not yet, no - and when there is, it won't be allowed for what the electorate might define as gross misconduct.

What the fuck do you think these protests are about, if not bringing down the government? We can't afford to wait another 4.5 years to get these vandals out. The ballot box is what we want - just not when they tell us we can have it.

 

[butchersapron]

They told the Tories to fuck off. There is no doubt that Churchill was extremeley popular with all, including the troops, throughout the War.

You don't appear to have kept up with modern history at all - there's been a raft of studies suggesting precisely that Church ill was massively unpopular through all the armed forces, and was seen as an electoral liability for the tories for this reason.

 

[Tankus]

Yeah, because that's been the main thrust of this thread, hasn't it:
"Lets kick the pols out and take over from them in Parliament".

Sounds like kinnock Prescott straw and darling in their youth ....wonder what happened to them ........duh

 

[ViolentPanda]

Heh not a new concept...the Romans wouldnt let the legions inside the city walls for the same reason

But the using phalanxes , acid sprays , clubs,paint bombs , and soon to follow ...molotovs ' Ill......... bet....... will only result in a lot of people hurt , and turn our cities into third world war zones where poeple fear to tread

Anyone stupid enough to use a petrol bomb will find that they're all very well for a low-density protest, but that you're more likely to bomb yourself and your mates in a high-density protest such as has happened recently. The only reason the kiddies in Ulster could get at us with theirs was because they had enough room to take a good run-up before hoying their milk bottles, and even then you'd always get a couple setting fire to themselves.

Scargill was the last one who thought that he could make a political change by a small minority on the back of an issue which gave him the opprtunity of manipulating a number of motivated people to violence against an elected state.

States aren't elected, governments are. His argument was against the government of the day.

Isnt there now a right to recall your MP? ....not happy and theres enough of you ...change it at the ballot box .......

There's no right of recall.
Your only opportunity to change things at the ballot box comes once every 4-5 years, and your local candidate is pretty much free to bullshit you about what he'll do, and then do the exact opposite when he's in power.

You're naive.

 

[Spymaster]

He was war time leader for 5 years but given his vile views and actions over nearly half a century (many of which resembled Hitlers) it's a bit sickening to insist we hold him up as some deified figure demanding our sanctified respect.

Agreed.

 

[Lock&Light]

The fact that Churchill was thrown out when he expected to win is undeniable tho

That's right. He confused his own popularlity with that of the Tories.

 

[Tankus]

didn't we just have an election......? how many actually voted here ....? maybe we should have a poll ...arf

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sounds like kinnock Prescott straw and darling in their youth ....wonder what happened to them ........duh

You're talking shite again.
All four that you named were never anything but Labour party loyalists, which means that revolution was the furthest thing from their mind.

Duh indeed.

 

[Lock&Light]

You don't appear to have kept up with modern history at all - there's been a raft of studies suggesting precisely that Church ill was massively unpopular through all the armed forces, and was seen as an electoral liability for the tories for this reason.

I can remember Churchill when his popularity was only a little dimmed. The day he died Britain came to a halt.

 

[belboid]

That's right. He confused his own popularlity with that of the Tories.

No, he was just wrong. Again, I note you offer nothing to back up your assertion.

 

[cantsin]

To me the whole thing is really funny. He'll never leave it down, to be off your head tripping in such a televised way is just... words escape me! I find it odd and irresponsible how people trivialise protests by taking lots of drugs

on the subject of EMA, Monday 13th is Save EMA day, you can sign the petition here: http://saveema.co.uk/save-ema-day

using E's / whizz etc to liven up the odd " a to b - speeches - go home" jobby is fair enough, but Gilmour Jnr's a game lad for doing acid on what was always looking like being a lively affair. Should have swerved the old abseiling under the circumstances though .

 

[butchersapron]

That's right. He confused his own popularlity with that of the Tories.

What does that even mean?

 

[revlon]

Agreed.

 

[revlon]

I can remember Churchill when his popularity was only a little dimmed. The day he died Britain came to a halt.

but his memory lingers on

 

[Tankus]

Anyone stupid enough to use a petrol bomb will find that they're all very well for a low-density protest, but that you're more likely to bomb yourself and your mates in a high-density protest such as has happened recently. The only reason the kiddies in Ulster could get at us with theirs was because they had enough room to take a good run-up before hoying their milk bottles, and even then you'd always get a couple setting fire to themselves.


States aren't elected, governments are. His argument was against the government of the day.


There's no right of recall.
Your only opportunity to change things at the ballot box comes once every 4-5 years, and your local candidate is pretty much free to bullshit you about what he'll do, and then do the exact opposite when he's in power.

You're naive.

quite possibly

heh ...theres your problem

 

[Spymaster]

In other words, the truth hurt...

No, in other words you're talking shit.

Your trite comparison of birds crapping on the cenotaph with someone (who's aware of what it is) pissing on it, is childish in the extreme.

You've never served your country, so your pontification on behalf of those who have, is informed from a different perspective

I'm "pontificating" on behalf of no one. My views are my own and I've taken pains to make that clear.

Grow up.

 

[belboid]

I can remember Churchill when his popularity was only a little dimmed. The day he died Britain came to a halt.

Simply untrue. Big crowds at his funeral (a few probably jsut making sure the old cunt was really dead) does not equal 'the whole country coming to a halt.' Same as it didnt when that parasite princess got buried

 

[Tankus]

You're talking shite again.
All four that you named were never anything but Labour party loyalists, which means that revolution was the furthest thing from their mind.

Duh indeed.

Im sure I could find a few choice utterances from Lord kinnock and Lord prescott , but do I really need to ?

 

[Lock&Light]

Simply untrue. Big crowds at his funeral (a few probably jsut making sure the old cunt was really dead) does not equal 'the whole country coming to a halt.' Same as it didnt when that parasite princess got buried

How well can you remember that day, belboid?

 

[belboid]

I have the ability to read English, something I know is beynd you.

 

[Spymaster]

Funny as fuck.

 

[Lock&Light]

I have the ability to read English, something I know is beynd you.

Well I asked as you seem to be confusing the day he died with the day of his funeral.

 

[shaman75]

Was this the first time kettling was used in the UK?

 

[LLETSA]

They all have ...thats why further education has been so expanded .. delaying the school leaving age ...dumping the problem on each successive government (not my problem guv)
Continually spending future revenue to fund it (PFI) In an effort to hide the fact that career starter jobs normally taken by our school leavers have been taken by euroimmigrants (2. 2 million jobs)

.....and that the issue of youth unemployment is a bomb swept under the carpet.......... This has been building for over a decade .....thats why labour lied to in their manifesto and brought in tuition fees /graduate loans ...there was not as much trouble over this as the NUS is in the pocket of labour , and an accepted career path for prospective labour mp's provided they toe the party line.

bulk not quantity

But the now they have run out of our money ...and the governments credit card is maxed out .......

If the coalition fails and labour gets back in tomorrow ....do you honestly expect them to fund them from the state ..?.... or come up with some other wheeze that lands the recipient student with a bill ..!.........

It is a cumulation of short term policies for short term political gain ............but they have now coalesced to a perfect storm with very few longterm options

The tuition fees are just another fudge ontop of of the main underlying issue .......even if it gets eventually accepted .....it only delays the bomb ...this is a side show

You'll see if you read my posts in other threads that I don't expect Labour to do anything. That's the big danger in all this-that it could end up being diverted into making sure Labour will get back into government-and then Labour will implement their own version of essentially the same set of policies as the coalition.

I largely agree that higher education has been expanded out of all proportion. Personally, having been badly educated in inner-city schools myself, I'd prefer the education system to be completely reformed from top to bottom, so that thousands upon thousands of of kids don't reach school leaving age at a considerable disadvantage due to having had their talents neglected by sub-standard schooling with no classroom discipline and no personal attention given (all the things that make the difference between state and private schools). But that is never going to happen, and the current generation of students are protesting because, for good or ill, this is the system we have got, and they've grown up being told, with much justification, that you are nothing if you haven't been in higher education. Plus, however lacking in worth many of today's degrees may be, the chances of getting well-paid worthwhile work is significantly more difficult without one. As I said earlier, there is nothing much out there for those who'll drop out because of higher fees. You are right in that the issue has been swept under the carpet, but it wasn't done by New Labour; they just continued and developed what their predecessors started. The heart of the problem lies in the erosion of Britain's industrial base (we still have one but it doesn't employ many people)-the replacing of manufacturing with low wage, low-rights service sector jobs. And that is not going to change under any conceivable government. The pretence used to be that the expansion of hugher education was all about a high-tech, skilled economy. What it was really about was parking as many people as possible away from the jobs market for three years.

 

[belboid]

Well I asked as you seem to be confusing the day he died with the day of his funeral.

Not at all. I forget joined up thinking is beyond you. Your supposed memory is meaningless, life carried on as normal.