London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[dylans]

They might have had a chance of being paid to go to university themselves, once, but now there isn't much hope of that.

Also, were all the people fighting WW2 doing it to see their living conditions being assaulted etc?

Indeed. We should remember that the post war welfare state was built in response to demands of a population who wanted to see some concrete benefits from their 5 years of suffering. More accurately it was a concession from a ruling class who feared a radicalised population and gave something to save them from losing everything. The very same welfare state that is being dismantled by Cameron and his "pig society"

The demonstrators fighting back honour the dead of wars in a very real way. They are fighting to defend the gains won by that generation and it is sickening to see their tragedy being invoked by those who wish to spit on their sacrifice. Patriotism is indeed the last refuge of the scoundrel.

It should also be remembered that the Churchill whose statue was damaged to the fake outrage of so many was a war mongering bastard and supporter of concentration camps for the unemployed and forced sterilisation of the poor as well as someone who used chemical weapons on the Kurds. Following the end of the war the British showed what they thought of him by kicking him out at the first opportunity. Fuck him and his statue.

 

[frogwoman]

i don't think 'the glorious dead' died for a country in which peaceful protesters were battered beyond endurance and then vilified when they fought back or for a country in which their name was invoked to maintain the status quo

Well said

 

[Pickman's model]

perhaps there's something to be said for greater emphasis on history in the national curriculum

 

[frogwoman]

Indeed. We should remember that the post war welfare state was built in response to demands of a population who wanted to see some concrete benefits from their 5 years of suffering. More accurately it was a concession from a ruling class who feared a radicalised population and gave something to save them from losing everything. The very same welfare state that is being dismantled by Cameron and his "pig society"

The demonstrators fighting back honour the dead of wars in a very real way. They are fighting to defend the gains won by that generation and it is sickening to see their tragedy being invoked by those who wish to spit on their sacrifice. Patriotism is indeed the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Exactly dylans

 

[ViolentPanda]

from the boston photos

Look at the officers ankle
military combat camo under the police uniform ...
might be the reason why some of them dont have numbers ...and how the met police can build up a big reserve ...quickley ..after getting caught out at milbank (Chelsea barracks ?)

Highly unlikely, given that CB aren't fully-manned atm.
Plus, the army brass aren't about to buttfuck 70-80 years of constitutional precedent by allowing their personnel to be deployed outside a state of emergency. Especially not with current low staffing levels.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, cos that's be a really sensible thing to do: stick squaddies in police uniform over their combats and not give them numbers, just so as they'll blend in like ...

You're another paranoid fool who needs help mate ...

Any need for the insulting coda?

And you professedly the person who dislikes name-calling, too.

 

[Pickman's model]

Any need for the insulting coda?

And you professedly the person who dislikes name-calling, too.

cunt

detective-boy dislikes insulting people? it's never stopped him before.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You dont understand how taxation works, do you? Silly boy.

I do indeed understand how taxation works, I collect taxes.

 

[Sasaferrato]

from the boston photos

Look at the officers ankle
military combat camo under the police uniform ...
might be the reason why some of them dont have numbers ...and how the met police can build up a big reserve ...quickley ..after getting caught out at milbank (Chelsea barracks ?)

IIRC Chelsea Barracks have been leveled for redevelopment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Barracks

 

[Barking_Mad]

Highly unlikely, given that CB aren't fully-manned atm.
Plus, the army brass aren't about to buttfuck 70-80 years of constitutional precedent by allowing their personnel to be deployed outside a state of emergency. Especially not with current low staffing levels.

In your view then, wy the camo's? Just something else to wear under their garb?

 

[Spymaster]

you can't imo equate the sacrifice of someone who died fighting for gallant little belgium or against hitler with that of eg the spy nairac

Rob Nairac was an idiot, but that aside, no, you can't.

That's what I meant when I said that the cenotaph represents different things to different people.

To me it's about the lives of 8.5 million young men, mostly working class, who died in WW1 mostly without knowing why, but out of some misguided sense of loyalty to 'King/Kaiser and Country'. It's about those who opposed fascism in the 30s and 40s and enabled subsequent generations to live relatively freely and prosperously, and it's about those who gave their lives so that the people of the Falkland Islands could live the way they chose, in the face of an outrageous attempted land-grab of British sovereign territory by a fascist dictator.

 

[ymu]

I do indeed understand how taxation works, I collect taxes.

And yet you have consistently shown that you are clueless about how it actually works. Is wallowing in your ignorance just too comfortable compared to making the effort to educate yourself?

 

[cantsin]

I doubt it very much, but we'll never know.

What we can be absolutely sure of however, is that I think you're a cunt.

god you're dull

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If you think the Falklands war was fought over the rights of a couple of thousand sheep farmers, you're very naive. If the US had wanted to build a military base there, those sheep farmers would have been shunted off their land and carelessly thrown away. They weren't black. That helped save them. But they weren't 'saved' out of any sense of justice.

 

[Tankus]

Highly unlikely, given that CB aren't fully-manned atm.
Plus, the army brass aren't about to buttfuck 70-80 years of constitutional precedent by allowing their personnel to be deployed outside a state of emergency. Especially not with current low staffing levels.

um..... went to Iraq ?

 

[Spymaster]

god you're dull

Yawn. Hello Catshit, internet hard man .

They're putting computers onto segregated wings now are they?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

vp's right. There's no way they will be calling the army in yet, even covertly.

 

[DotCommunist]

um..... went to Iraq ?

deployed on british soil. It takes a massive hoo-hah to get that done, the Home Sec has to authorise it I think.

 

[ViolentPanda]

One can only hope that every student who has acted in a violent or destructive manner is expelled from their university? Have the universities broken up for Christmas yet? If not, there is a strong case for expelling all of them. If they can take time out for rioting, they have obviously completed their education.

You're not demonstrating an over-abundance of logic, or of honesty. They took "time out" to protest against something that will affect the next generation of undergraduates and, in some cases, the protesters were school-children protesting against the acing of EMA, so don't attend a university that they could be expelled from.

Those who desecrated the Cenotaph are prime candidates for a public birching as well as being expelled.

The Cenotaph is a stone monument. It is meaningless in and of itself, as I suspect the pissing was.

If someone had, instead, pissed on a soldier's grave, you might have a point wrt birching, but as it is, unless you can prove intent, you're just gibbering impotently again.

On a personal note, I've always found the Cenotaph rather morbid, and the use to which it gets put once a year, by politicians to be nauseating. There's nothing glorious about death in battle, not that many of the current shower of cunts would know that.

 

[Spymaster]

If you think the Falklands war was fought over the rights of a couple of thousand sheep farmers, you're very naive. If the US had wanted to build a military base there, those sheep farmers would have been shunted off their land and carelessly thrown away. They weren't black. That helped save them. But they weren't 'saved' out of any sense of justice.

Certainly the fate of the Falklanders was a welcome but secondary by-product of the war. The fact remains that the Falklands conflict was probably the only justifiable war that the UK has fought since 1945.

 

[Tankus]

deployed on british soil. It takes a massive hoo-hah to get that done, the Home Sec has to authorise it I think.

NI then.............

Should use them anyway ......police shouldnt have their lives put at risk

 

[DotCommunist]

NI then.............

Should use them anyway ......police shouldnt have their lives put at risk

turning the army on your own people is a bad idea.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fuck the cenotaph. It is a symbol of past wars waged by ungrateful governments. Those hard-won freedoms are being eroded, and these cuts are a huge step along that path of erosion. What exactly are the young expected to be grateful for?

I disagree.
The Cenotaph isn't a symbol of those things, it's a memorial to the dead.
Unfortunately, it has almost constantly been used by the political elites to represent past and current power, rather than the past and current sacrifice of soldiers on the altar of state policy, and its' real meaning has been buried.

Fuck anyone who puts a slab of concrete with meaningless platitudes on it over and above the living here and now. Those same cunts in power lined up dutifully by the cenotaph just a few weeks ago. Fuck them and their faux fucking outrage.

I agree with the platitudinous nature of "the glorious dead", if only because the idea of glory in death through war is grotesque.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Democracy must be protected.

Only a film and some would say not a good one, but for the lolz

 

[littlebabyjesus]

turning the army on your own people is a bad idea.

When they do that, we'll know we're winning.

 

[Tankus]

turning the army on your own people is a bad idea.

same as using weapons against the police

Democracy must be protected.

yes ...it must

 

[ViolentPanda]

Go and fuck yourself, arsehole.

Nobody is asking the young to be 'grateful'.

Whether or not those freedoms are being eroded, the cenotaph means different things to a great number of people. A little respect for those people isn't too much to ask.

People died in order to enable that wanker to piss on their memories like that without being shot.

He pissed on a piece of stone, you armchair patriot.
Birds shit on the Cenotaph all the time. How do you know there isn't a flock of anti-establishment pigeons who deliberately take dumps on it to "shit on the memories" of dead soldiers?

 

[LLETSA]

Fair enough, rutita. I'm not suggesting it isn't really good for some kids, but I've been told by a friend who teaches at an FE college that it does lead to significant numbers of disruptive students who have no desire to learn anything – there need to be different, entirely non-academic alternatives too as some kids have just had enough of academic learning by age 16. It's a waste of their time being there, and it doesn't help other kids who want to be there.

A mate of mine does the IT stuff in a large FE college, and he'd confirm what you say. He does as much seperating fighting teenagers and chucking them out of the library for refusing to keep quiet as he does tech stuff. Having said that he's in favour of EMA. After all, as he says, it's the kids who don't want to be there who'd otherwise be disrupting their own neighbourhoods throughout the day, 'cos there's certainly no worthwhile, decently -paid jobs for 16 year-old kids anymore.

the coalition doesn't seem to have thought about this. Or perhaps they have and believe that the UK can cope with a significantly worse, US-style teenage gang problem in our inner-cities.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you think the people who fought in the war did it for a bit of cloth, or a bit of stone?

Quite.

 

[revlon]

Democracy must be protected.

Only a film and some would say not a good one, but

ya think short-arse will get the shit ripped out of them for his/her shield.

"you spoilt the line. CUNT!"