London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[DotCommunist]

same as using weapons against the police

you aren't looking at this from outside of a very narrow sphere. Why do you think governments are reluctant to use the army on british soil? Go on, have a stab.

 

[Brainaddict]

the coalition doesn't seem to have thought about this. Or perhaps they have and believe that the UK can cope with a significantly worse, US-style teenage gang problem in our inner-cities.

The issue of whether they've thought about it or not seems an academic one. They don't care. That's what this entire regime of cuts says: we don't give a fuck about anyone but our rich friends.

 

[gentlegreen]

"Churchill" and the Cenotaph are hugely flawed and distorted symbols, as is Westminster, but you disrespect them at your peril.

 

[Spymaster]

He pissed on a piece of stone, you armchair patriot.
Birds shit on the Cenotaph all the time. How do you know there isn't a flock of anti-establishment pigeons who deliberately take dumps on it to "shit on the memories" of dead soldiers?

What utter bollocks.

Not worth considered comment.

ETA: And you can fuck off with your cheap insults too.

 

[Barking_Mad]

same as using weapons against the police



yes ...it must

Thank god we have some noble men at the wheel eh?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The issue of whether they've thought about it or not seems an academic one. They don't care. That's what this entire regime of cuts says: we don't give a fuck about anyone but our rich friends.

Yep. I don't think the EMA is the right solution to the problem it is supposed to address, but I will defend it against this shower for the reason you give here.

 

[ViolentPanda]

In your view then, wy the camo's? Just something else to wear under their garb?

Pretty much.
That and an inordinate number of OB I've had the misfortune to know have a bit of a hard-on for military gear (except the ones who are ex-military).
Bloke was probably giving himself a semi by imagining he was a soldier rather than a weeble.

 

[ViolentPanda]

um..... went to Iraq ?

They wouldn't allow them to be deployed on active service in the UK. Fighting fires and providing flood relief is one thing, having them serve as police is quite another.

 

[ViolentPanda]

NI then.............

Should use them anyway ......police shouldnt have their lives put at risk

Northern Ireland deployment was a state of emergency.

 

[pk]

LOL, just read it was Dave Gilmour's boy swinging off the Cenotaph - says he was tripping on acid... multi-millionaire's son fucking it up for people genuinely unable to pay for Uni...

 

[dylans]

"Churchill" and the Cenotaph are hugely flawed and distorted symbols, as is Westminster, but you disrespect them at your peril.

Why should I respect Churchill?

On sterilising the mentally ill and disabled

''The unnatural and increasingly rapid rise of the feeble-minded and insane classes, coupled as it is with a steady restriction among the thrifty, energetic and superior stocks, constitutes a national and race danger which it is impossible to exaggerate. I feel that the source from which the stream of madness is fed should be cut off and sealed up before another year has passed''.

On the "international Jewish conspiracy"

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others.

This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstituition of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing.

On poison gas

I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas.

I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected.

Disrespect him? I wouldn't hesitate to piss on the bastards statue. In fact I would cheer if someone blew it up.

 

[Tankus]

A mate of mine does the IT stuff in a large FE college, and he'd confirm what you say. He does as much seperating fighting teenagers and chucking them out of the library for refusing to keep quiet as he does tech stuff. Having said that he's in favour of EMA. After all, as he says, it's the kids who don't want to be there who'd otherwise be disrupting their own neighbourhoods throughout the day, 'cos there's certainly no worthwhile, decently -paid jobs for 16 year-old kids anymore.

the coalition doesn't seem to have thought about this. Or perhaps they have and believe that the UK can cope with a significantly worse, US-style teenage gang problem in our inner-cities.

They all have ...thats why further education has been so expanded .. delaying the school leaving age ...dumping the problem on each successive government (not my problem guv)
Continually spending future revenue to fund it (PFI) In an effort to hide the fact that career starter jobs normally taken by our school leavers have been taken by euroimmigrants (2. 2 million jobs)

.....and that the issue of youth unemployment is a bomb swept under the carpet.......... This has been building for over a decade .....thats why labour lied to in their manifesto and brought in tuition fees /graduate loans ...there was not as much trouble over this as the NUS is in the pocket of labour , and an accepted career path for prospective labour mp's provided they toe the party line.

bulk not quantity

But the now they have run out of our money ...and the governments credit card is maxed out .......

If the coalition fails and labour gets back in tomorrow ....do you honestly expect them to fund them from the state ..?.... or come up with some other wheeze that lands the recipient student with a bill ..!.........

It is a cumulation of short term policies for short term political gain ............but they have now coalesced to a perfect storm with very few longterm options

The tuition fees are just another fudge ontop of of the main underlying issue .......even if it gets eventually accepted .....it only delays the bomb ...this is a side show

 

[Spymaster]

Why should I respect Churchill?

There's no doubt that Churchill was an utter cunt, but he was the right man in the right place in 39/40.

 

[ViolentPanda]

same as using weapons against the police

You mean the impromptu weapons used by the protesters after the police had kicked off the violence?
I hardly class a piece of paving stone, a plastic bottle or a balloon filled with paint as "weapons". Not when the police are wearing body armour and helmets, and have shields.

yes ...it must

Except that our democracy is a sham.
Have a butchers at the dictionary definition of democracy, sometime. Not the different forms of democracy, but what the word actually means - what we have doesn't accord very well with the meaning of that word.

 

[gentlegreen]

It may be an age thing, but surely there's been enough real witness accounts of WW2 - and especially how it directly affected London. ?

 

[ymu]

Who is this fucking moron?

[That'd be Tankus, for the avoidance of doubt]

And I've tried many more arguments besides. And these arguments work - sometimes. A little discussion of why the great economists of our age think that George Osborne is either mad or bad or stupid often does leave people convinced.

But many turn off at the wiff of a discussion of economic theory. And you don't get the chance to have that little conversation with everyone in Britain.

However, there is one more argument: one I haven't yet mentioned, which doesn't require so much explanation - an argument which convinces almost all who hear it. A fact so compelling that once shouted, it will echo throughout the country:

If the mega-rich who caused this crisis paid the same level of tax as you and me, we wouldn't have a deficit.

And of course, all of these arguments are what the Labour Party would be explaining, if they were brave enough to challenge Britain's entrenched corporate power. But they aren't. And so, with the noble exception of our one Green MP, and a few on the Labour left, it it falls to us, the people, to make this case.

But that's ok. It's ok, because this is nothing new. Public services were won by social movements who shouted, and screamed, and withdrew their labour, and occupied, and built new political parties, and, yes, smashed windows. And it's ok because the fact that they don't teach economic history in school doesn't mean that we don't remember this lesson. It was our grandparents and our great grandparents who won a state pension, who invented the NHS and who built affordable council houses. That was their legacy to us.

And it's ok because our thanks to them will be to use the technology that our parents with their state funded education invented for us, to organise a resistance to the Tories so strong that our children will never forget. Because the history of Britain is a history of ordinary people fighting the Tories to win a fair share of our country's wealth and power.

http://ukuncut.org.uk/blog/what-were-arguing-against-and-what-were-fighting-for

The whole thing is worth a read. No references, but they may be found at: http://falseeconomy.org.uk/cure/the-false-economy-guide-to-the-deficit (click through to the end, it's a few pages worth).

 

[pk]

LOL, just read it was Dave Gilmour's boy swinging off the Cenotaph - says he was tripping on acid... multi-millionaire's son fucking it up for people genuinely unable to pay for Uni...

 

[gentlegreen]

You mean the impromptu weapons used by the protesters after the police had kicked off the violence?
I hardly class a piece of paving stone, a plastic bottle or a balloon filled with paint as "weapons". Not when the police are wearing body armour and helmets, and have shields.

Were the paint and balloons found lying around ?

 

[Tankus]

Thank god we have some noble men at the wheel eh?

and replace them with some of the bunch on here ? eh?

 

[claphamboy]

LOL, just read it was Dave Gilmour's boy swinging off the Cenotaph - says he was tripping on acid... multi-millionaire's son fucking it up for people genuinely unable to pay for Uni...

So, he was on acid.

He seemed well off his head on the TV clip they showed of him during the demo; slurring somewhat, but somehow ‘pissed’ didn’t seem to fit it.

What sort of twat drops acid to go on a mass demo that is more than likely going to turn violent?

 

[girasol]

LOL, just read it was Dave Gilmour's boy swinging off the Cenotaph - says he was tripping on acid... multi-millionaire's son fucking it up for people genuinely unable to pay for Uni...

To me the whole thing is really funny. He'll never leave it down, to be off your head tripping in such a televised way is just... words escape me! I find it odd and irresponsible how people trivialise protests by taking lots of drugs

on the subject of EMA, Monday 13th is Save EMA day, you can sign the petition here: http://saveema.co.uk/save-ema-day

 

[dylans]

There's no doubt that Churchill was an utter cunt, but he was the right man in the right place in 39/40.

He was war time leader for 5 years but given his vile views and actions over nearly half a century (many of which resembled Hitlers) it's a bit sickening to insist we hold him up as some deified figure demanding our sanctified respect.

 

[Lock&Light]

Birds shit on the Cenotaph all the time. How do you know there isn't a flock of anti-establishment pigeons who deliberately take dumps on it to "shit on the memories" of dead soldiers?

You do occasionally say the most silly things.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What utter bollocks.

Not worth considered comment.

In other words, the truth hurt, and you've got fuck-all reply worthy of the name.
You're beginning to come across like a Sas mini-me.

ETA: And you can fuck off with your cheap insults too.

"Armchair patriot" isn't a cheap insult, it's an observation of fact. You've never served your country, so your pontification on behalf of those who have, is informed from a different perspective - the view from your armchair.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Were the paint and balloons found lying around ?

No. The paint-balloons are "impromptu weapons" in the same way a Molotov cocktail is - everyday objects utilised for a novel purpose.

 

[belboid]

There's no doubt that Churchill was an utter cunt, but he was the right man in the right place in 39/40.

Atlee was more important. Or even some Generals. Churchill just made some speeches. Soldiers showed what they thought of him in the 1945 election. They told him to fuck off.

 

[Tankus]

you aren't looking at this from outside of a very narrow sphere. Why do you think governments are reluctant to use the army on british soil? Go on, have a stab.

Heh not a new concept...the Romans wouldnt let the legions inside the city walls for the same reason

But the using phalanxes , acid sprays , clubs,paint bombs , and soon to follow ...molotovs ' Ill......... bet....... will only result in a lot of people hurt , and turn our cities into third world war zones where poeple fear to tread

Scargill was the last one who thought that he could make a political change by a small minority on the back of an issue which gave him the opprtunity of manipulating a number of motivated people to violence against an elected state.

Isnt there now a right to recall your MP? ....not happy and theres enough of you ...change it at the ballot box .......

 

[revlon]

There's no doubt that Churchill was an utter cunt, but he was the right man in the right place in 39/40.

but he certainly wasn't in gallipoli, or indeed july 3 1940. For a aristocractic posh twat he was particularly shit at war. Or maybe he just didn't give a fuck about how many service men he killed, er 'sacrificed'.

 

[ViolentPanda]

and replace them with some of the bunch on here ? eh?

Yeah, because that's been the main thrust of this thread, hasn't it:
"Lets kick the pols out and take over from them in Parliament".

 

[belboid]

Isnt there now a right to recall your MP?

No