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London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

Tankus said:
Scargill was the last one who thought that he could make a political change by a small minority on the back of an issue which gave him the opprtunity of manipulating a number of motivated people to violence against an elected state.
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No he didn't-and anyway, we do not elect the state.
 
belboid said:
Not at all. I forget joined up thinking is beyond you. Your supposed memory is meaningless, life carried on as normal.
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As I was in my late teens at the time, I have to accept that some of my memory cells may have grown a little retarded with time. And yet I remember the hushed tones in the shops, the blanket Radio & TV coverage, and the sadness in the eyes of very many, (though, of course, not all) people walking the streets.
 
blanket radio & TV coverage means absolutely jack shit. Of course they did. They weren't exactly working class mouthpieces were they?

You have offered not one iota of evidence Churchill himself was popular with soldiers. Probably because he wasn't. They admired Atlee.
 
LLETSA said:
You'll see if you read my posts in other threads that I don't expect Labour to do anything. That's the big danger in all this-that it could end up being diverted into making sure Labour will get back into government-and then Labour will implement their own version of essentially the same set of policies as the coalition.

I largely agree that higher education has been expanded out of all proportion. Personally, having been badly educated in inner-city schools myself, I'd prefer the education system to be completely reformed from top to bottom, so that thousands upon thousands of of kids don't reach school leaving age at a considerable disadvantage due to having had their talents neglected by sub-standard schooling with no classroom discipline and no personal attention given (all the things that make the difference between state and private schools). But that is never going to happen, and the current generation of students are protesting because, for good or ill, this is the system we have got, and they've grown up being told, with much justification, that you are nothing if you haven't been in higher education. Plus, however lacking in worth many of today's degrees may be, the chances of getting well-paid worthwhile work is significantly more difficult without one. As I said earlier, there is nothing much out there for those who'll drop out because of higher fees. You are right in that the issue has been swept under the carpet, but it wasn't done by New Labour; they just continued and developed what their predecessors started. The heart of the problem lies in the erosion of Britain's industrial base (we still have one but it doesn't employ many people)-the replacing of manufacturing with low wage, low-rights service sector jobs. And that is not going to change under any conceivable government. The pretence used to be that the expansion of hugher education was all about a high-tech, skilled economy. What it was really about was parking as many people as possible away from the jobs market for three years.
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on this- my concern here is that even with a newly increased industrial base how would we compete against the emerging industrial nations?
 
pk said:
LOL, just read it was Dave Gilmour's boy swinging off the Cenotaph - says he was tripping on acid... multi-millionaire's son fucking it up for people genuinely unable to pay for Uni...
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you didn't see the "slums of london" kids doing that shit. these fuckers need to be told where to fucking go. self indulgent pricks.
 
where to said:
you didn't see the "slums of london" kids doing that shit. these fuckers need to be told where to fucking go. self indulgent pricks.
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apparently (according to one officer present posting on arrse) they were roaming in gangs robbing the genuine students. Presumably the dead were also going unburied and a three headed goat wandered the streets.
 
DotCommunist said:
on this- my concern here is that even with a newly increased industrial base how would we compete against the emerging industrial nations?
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Quite. That's why no mainstream party claims it can be done. I'm convinced that this is why we are being 'managed down' to a Third World-style society. Assuming that the world economy doesn't implode altogether under the impact of more financial shennanigans or a resources crisis, that means a low wage, low skill population with few workplace rights and an immovable political system, without genuine choices and with oligarchs running the show.
 
belboid said:
blanket radio & TV coverage means absolutely jack shit. Of course they did. They weren't exactly working class mouthpieces were they?

You have offered not one iota of evidence Churchill himself was popular with soldiers. Probably because he wasn't. They admired Atlee.
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Of course they admired Atlee. They voted for Atlee. But that doesn't mean they hated Churchill. They didn't.
 
LLETSA said:
You'll see if you read my posts in other threads that I don't expect Labour to do anything. That's the big danger in all this-that it could end up being diverted into making sure Labour will get back into government-and then Labour will implement their own version of essentially the same set of policies as the coalition.

I largely agree that higher education has been expanded out of all proportion. Personally, having been badly educated in inner-city schools myself, I'd prefer the education system to be completely reformed from top to bottom, so that thousands upon thousands of of kids don't reach school leaving age at a considerable disadvantage due to having had their talents neglected by sub-standard schooling with no classroom discipline and no personal attention given (all the things that make the difference between state and private schools). But that is never going to happen, and the current generation of students are protesting because, for good or ill, this is the system we have got, and they've grown up being told, with much justification, that you are nothing if you haven't been in higher education. Plus, however lacking in worth many of today's degrees may be, the chances of getting well-paid worthwhile work is significantly more difficult without one. As I said earlier, there is nothing much out there for those who'll drop out because of higher fees. You are right in that the issue has been swept under the carpet, but it wasn't done by New Labour; they just continued and developed what their predecessors started. The heart of the problem lies in the erosion of Britain's industrial base (we still have one but it doesn't employ many people)-the replacing of manufacturing with low wage, low-rights service sector jobs. And that is not going to change under any conceivable government. The pretence used to be that the expansion of hugher education was all about a high-tech, skilled economy. What it was really about was parking as many people as possible away from the jobs market for three years.
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totally agree

without acknowledging the underlying problem ...there is virtually no chance of resolving the issue
 
I was 5 and distinctly remember the two minutes' silence - average, lower middle class suburban home.
Not something we ever did on 11/11
 
The facebook event to 'kettle scotland yard' today seems to have attracted 10-12 protesters, compared to at least 50 officers doing not a lot according to twitter.

Interestingly, the facebook event, which I guess hasn't been promoted enough, doesn't list who's coming/ invited etc... (you can select that option) which seems to have left the police with no idea of numbers...

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=156466817731842&index=1 (for those on facebook)
 
LLETSA said:
Quite. That's why no mainstream party claims it can be done. I'm convinced that this is why we are being 'managed down' to a Third World-style society. Assuming that the world economy doesn't implode altogether under the impact of more financial shennanigans or a resources crisis, that means a low wage, low skill population with few workplace rights and an immovable political system, without genuine choices and with oligarchs running the show.
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Tis a scary thought .......and an immigration policy geared towards people acclimatized to this sort of society ............. or was that a bit too BNP
 
Not read the whole thread but...

Has anyone in Bristol heard about the students who have been locked in the uni by police since Nov 22nd?
 
shaman75 said:
The facebook event to 'kettle scotland yard' today seems to have attracted 10-12 protesters, compared to at least 50 officers doing not a lot according to twitter.

Interestingly, the facebook event, which I guess hasn't been promoted enough, doesn't list who's coming/ invited etc... (you can select that option) which seems to have left the police with no idea of numbers...

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=156466817731842&index=1 (for those on facebook)
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separate event being organised on tuesday at 1pm by 'friends of alfie meadows'

http://twitpic.com/3eykgw
 
DotCommunist said:
apparently (according to one officer present posting on arrse) they were roaming in gangs robbing the genuine students. Presumably the dead were also going unburied and a three headed goat wandered the streets.
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this happened during one of the CPE protests in Paris in 2006, wouldn't discount the possibility completely. but would've thought we'd of heard more about it if true. Paul Mason (i think) reported on a fight between teenagers in the kettle, and i did see footage of one scuffle between kids on the 24th November in the Whitehall kettle.
 
Clair De Lune said:
Not read the whole thread but...

Has anyone in Bristol heard about the students who have been locked in the uni by police since Nov 22nd?
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They're not locked in - they're occupying! I was up there a few days ago - half of them went to london in the week and they had a big party last night to try and link up the various anti-cuts stuff locally.
 
butchersapron said:
They're not locked in - they're occupying! I was up there a few days ago - half of them went to london in the week and they had a big party last night to try and link up the various anti-cuts stuff locally.
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Ah that's why I asked cos it sounded a bit weird like. I just heard people had been climbing buildings to get them food. Good on em :)
 
Tankus said:
govermnent then ......... I guess I should just say what I ment ..eh ? ..but the sentiment is the same ...seems like to me there are parallels
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The primary aim of the NUM was to stop the pit closure programme. They made no bones about the fact that they would be happy if a by-product of victory would be the fall of the Tory government and an election victory for Labour. This is hardly startling evidence of sinister political machinations, and they were a lot more open about it than the super-rich are about their methods of subverting governments of which they do not approve.

Scargill did not have to manipulate anybody either-a majority of miners were ahead of the NUM leadership in their determination to stop the closures, and were fully behind the decision not to have a ballot, despite intense media pressure, as they had already voted with their feet.
 
Tankus said:
Tis a scary thought .......and an immigration policy geared towards people acclimatized to this sort of society ............. or was that a bit too BNP
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As soon as I saw your posts yesterday, I thought you seemed familiar...
 
I heard this guy on the radio this morning. Sounds like a nice human being. His blog is below. I thought I'd share it with you.

"When we reached the front, the batons began to fly. One came landing straight onto my left shoulder, sending a sharp, shooting pain down my arm. Others were taking blows to the head. Children, women, men, all being brutalised by the police. Then the horses came, horses that could easily kill people, but we would not budge. We held our ground.

Suddenly, four policemen grabbed my shoulders and pulled me out of my wheelchair. My friends and younger brother struggled to pull me back, but were beaten away with batons. The police carried me away. Around five minutes later, my younger brother was also forced through, the wheelchair still in his hands."

Jody Mcintyre - Life On Wheels
 
Spymaster said:
No, in other words you're talking shit.
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What's next in your armoury, "I know I am but what are you?"?
Your trite comparison of birds crapping on the cenotaph with someone (who's aware of what it is) pissing on it, is childish in the extreme.
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You're making the assumption that you know the motivation of the pisser, and I didn't make a comparison, I was trying to point out that the person pissing may have had as little motivation as a bird shitting on the Cenotaph.


I'm "pontificating" on behalf of no one. My views are my own and I've taken pains to make that clear.
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And yet you pontificated on behalf of people who (your own words here) "...died in order to enable that wanker to piss on their memories like that without being shot". Your views may well be your own, but you attempted to speak for others who haven't asked you for your tuppence-worth.
Grow up.
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I already have, long ago. Try it yourself sometime.
Who knows, you might get a clue. :)
 
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