London rioting and looting, Aug 2011

[Badgers]

Hello,

Hello

I live in the USA, in a Northeastern city.

Please stay there

 

[ExtraRefined]

Berkeley is a hotbed of communist sedition, so we'd better be careful there too.

 

[danny la rouge]

You seem to have lost all spirit of self sufficiency and community cohesion.

"Lost" doesn't cover it, mate. It was beaten out of us by the constant daily batter of Thatcherist ideals over three decades. Deliberately.

 

[ExtraRefined]

Oh shit, the internet's here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pic...ing-and-looted-areas-of-the-city.html?image=2

 

[Ms T]

So in the end we did not need the army to quell the worst rioting in decades in London, nor did we need water canons, the suspension of PACE or any of the other measures being screamed for.

What it did take was a massive police presence and a bit of pre-emptive policing. We can still police this country with a largely fire arm free police force.

Oh and numbers do count. Cheers for the 20% cuts Dave, we wont notice a thing.

Dave's lapdog still insisting on the Today programme that the police cuts will go ahead, ffs.

 

[Greebo]

Dave's lapdog still insisting on the Today programme that the police cuts will go ahead, ffs.

What a twat

 

[bi0boy]

Urbans arguing for more police, whatever next?

 

[Kizmet]

Urbans, police and pensioners against the yobs.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Too right claphamboy.

If it came to it, I'd rather be caught in the middle of a riot conducted with bricks and baseball bats than a firefight with guns on both sides.

fuck that, i've got my .22 airgun locked and loaded, inner city pressure come round here being rioting bad bwoys, i fucking pop a cap in it's ass (well, pellet more accurately)

 

[Spymaster]

Hello,

I live in the USA, in a Northeastern city.

Hello Avr,

You'll receive a hostile reception here as public ownership of firearms is not generally considered necessary or popular.

The United Kingdom probably has the strictest gun laws in the world. Even shotgun certification is highly controlled, firearms licensing more so, and fully automatic and handheld firearms are completely banned from private ownership under any circumstances. The result is that we have one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, although some types have risen sharply over the last 10 years with some gun related offences more than doubling in frequency over that period. In 2000 there were 8 firearms homicides in England and Wales, in 2006 there were 58, in 2009, 39. That's still very low. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence,http://www.cjp.org.uk/publications/...rime-in-england-and-wales-2009-10-15-07-2010/)

The broader effects of the strict UK gun control is more debateable. Whilst our gun homicide rate is lower than Germany's (much lighter gun legislation there, with licensed handguns permitted, and even carried concealed in some cases) our non-gun related homicide rate per capita is almost double theirs. Some suggest that often being armed, Germans are less likely to become victims.(http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf).

Personally, whilst I've no desire whatsoever to arm the populace, I think our laws should be relaxed to allow private use of handguns for sporting purposes under controlled conditions. Others will say that we haven't had any rampage type murders with legally held firearms, of the types regularly seen elsewhere, since we banned them. We did however have a fella called Moat who last year shot three people and then himself with a shotgun, the year before a chap called Derrick Bird went radio in Cumbria and killed 12 people with legally held weapons, and if you really want to go on a shoot-'em-up it's still reasonably easy to purchase illegal firearms.

You're assertion that guns are necessary for personal protection is rejected by most of the UK. I've lived in the U.S. (NYC/Dallas,1988-2001), still have family and friends there, and the vast majority of people that I know there do not own firearms, so not even all Americans think it's a good idea.

Texans don't count!

 

[treelover]

http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2011/08/looting-and-uk-riots-as-above-so-below.html'

Madame Miaow has a good blog piece and a song from Bermondsey Joyriding 'Society'

 

[ViolentPanda]

Berkeley is a hotbed of communist sedition, so we'd better be careful there too.

Well, it was 40 and 50 years ago, but hey, obviously it's still contaminated, right?

 

[quimcunx]

Wrong thread.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Sky News understands David Cameron has been in talks with Chinese government to share web-filtering technologies. #pmqs

 

[avr328]

The violent crime rate in London is more than twice that in New York City.

According to Wikipedia [1] there is assault with grievous bodily harm rate of 9.5 per 1,000 residents of London.

In 2008/09 there 70,962 assault with injury offences in London with a rate of 9.5 per 1,000 residents.[27] This was slightly higher than the total rate for England and Wales, which was 7.0 per 1,000 residents.

Contrast that with New York, where Aggravated Assault is just 3 per 1,000 residents, and all violent crime including rape is just 5.8 per 1,000.

Rape rate in New York is 10 per 100,000, while in London the rate is 42!! With another estimated 40% of rape crimes unreported [4]

You are substantially more likely to be beaten, raped, and assaulted in London than in New York.

Murder happens much much less frequently, so the chances of an innocent person suffering it are tiny in both countries (just a few per 100,000). Chances of dying in a car accident are substanitally higher than being murdered. But assault and rape are about a thousand times more like to happen to you in a given year , and they are way higher in London.

The murders tend to occur specifically inside of drug gangs , so it is very skewed to take the numbers and apply them to the chances of an innocent person being murdered.

I will keep my handgun, carry it, and hope to god I never have to use it.

You citizens of London should take a look at how you have become prisoners of street violence, and stop being so smug
about your superior and illusory safety.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London#Assault_with_injury

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City

[3] http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/

[4] http://womensgrid.freecharity.org.uk/?p=1756

Hello Avr,

You'll receive a hostile reception here as public ownership of firearms is not generally considered necessary or popular.

The United Kingdom probably has the strictest gun laws in the world. Even shotgun certification is highly controlled, firearms licensing more so, and fully automatic and handheld firearms are completely banned from private ownership under any circumstances. The result is that we have one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, although some types have risen sharply over the last 10 years with some gun related offences more than doubling in frequency over that period. In 2000 there were 8 firearms homicides in England and Wales, in 2006 there were 58, in 2009, 39. That's still very low. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence,http://www.cjp.org.uk/publications/...rime-in-england-and-wales-2009-10-15-07-2010/)

 

[Treacle Toes]

You citizens of London should take a look at how you have become prisoners of street violence, and stop being so smug
about your superior and illusory safety.

Erm, I think you will find we are in this situation, which I wouldn't call 'prisoners to street violence' because our government don't give a shit about what we have to deal with day to day. You will get no where around here trying to convince us all to push for gun ownership. I mean seriously, it hasn't helped you guys at all has it?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Oh yes, can you imagine the drunk arseholes from the EDL running around with guns pretending to be Charles Bronson. That'd really help

 

[Shandril19]

ETA: BTW have you been following our problems on Fox News by any chance?

Heh. I haven't really posted here in years (darn work wanting me to actually work during the day), but that made me snort.

I'm consistently amazed by anyone who thinks more access to guns would have made the events of this week better overall....

 

[TitanSound]

You citizens of London should take a look at how you have become prisoners of street violence, and stop being so smug
about your superior and illusory safety.

Yes. We all sit at home cowering in fear.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yes. We all sit at home cowering in fear.

We might if a bunch of drunken far-right dickheads with guns were on the loose too

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Yes. We all sit at home cowering in fear.

We sit at work cowering in fear too. I'm so fearful I'm typing this instead of working. True story.

 

[Corax]

Apparently nobody is bothered much. Oh well.

I thought that was normally the case though. Offensive and undeserved personal abuse gets reported more often than the kind of shite on this thread I would have thought? Always had the impression that with stuff like this, people are happy to take care of it themselves without needing the banhammer.

 

[cybertect]

The violent crime rate in London is more than twice that in New York City.

I'm not sure New York City is the best example you could choose for your case. AFAIK, it has the toughest regulation of the private ownership of guns in the US. Indeed the reduction of crime in NYC from the extremes of the 1970s has coincided with the introduction of this approach (though undoubtedly other public policy changes and other general trends have contributed to the fall).

If you're right, presumably the crime stats for places like Houston, Las Vegas or Miami, which have more liberal firearms regimes should be even more favourable compared with London than those for NYC.

Fancy looking them up?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I'm pretty sure there are traffic intersections in Miami and LA with higher murder rates than the entire UK.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I thought that was normally the case though. Offensive and undeserved personal abuse gets reported more often than the kind of shite on this thread I would have thought? Always had the impression that with stuff like this, people are happy to take care of it themselves without needing the banhammer.

I tend to use my brain inbuilt ignore function for all that sort of stuff

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

on another note, not sure if anyone posted a link to this:
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/news_and_events/latest_news/tottenham_fund.htm
it's for money donation for victims of the riots (in tottenham obviously, and I'm wondering if there are any other such similar things being set up for other areas or with a more general focus (I'm specifically thinking about the families made homeless on those nights) as self censorship of what could possibly be construed as opportunistic advertising)

eta: is there maybe a thread for this already or should we make one for such links?

 

[8115]

Special rioting Question Time tonight for anyone who can stomach it. I wonder who they'll get on it. My blood runs cold just thinking about it. I feel really sick of this rioting and associated media coverage/ pontificating, like I've eaten a whole chocolate cake to myself.

 

[treelover]

i'd like to donate to a national fund for the families, etc..

 

[treelover]

re: the QT tonight is very important, a must view, i think it will give some indication of how the fallout will pan out, maybe they will have Owen jones On..

 

[krtek a houby]

Special rioting Question Time tonight for anyone who can stomach it. I wonder who they'll get on it. My blood runs cold just thinking about it. I feel really sick of this rioting and associated media coverage/ pontificating, like I've eaten a whole chocolate cake to myself.

I hopes you paid for that chocolate cake, mind