Liz Truss’s time is up

[Nine Bob Note]

Post dead Lizzie, reality kicks in. Liz Truss is PM

 

[Johnny Vodka]

She’s bigging up trickle down economics. The Laffer curve that was pitched by being scribbled on the back of a cocktail napkin and has been throughly debunked.

Liz Truss urges world leaders to follow UK with trickle down economics

Reports that stamp duty will be cut as PM uses speech to UN to argue for far-reaching tax reductions, putting her at odds with Joe Biden

www.theguardian.com

She wants to turn the whole damn world Tory.

Can we swap her for Joe Biden?

 

[Storm Fox]

She’s bigging up trickle down economics. The Laffer curve that was pitched by being scribbled on the back of a cocktail napkin and has been throughly debunked.

Liz Truss urges world leaders to follow UK with trickle down economics

Reports that stamp duty will be cut as PM uses speech to UN to argue for far-reaching tax reductions, putting her at odds with Joe Biden

www.theguardian.com

LOL. She still thinks the UK is a major player on the international stage. Most Non-UK people I talk to think the UK is a joke.

Quotes from the Guardian story

“Lower taxes lead to economic growth, there is no doubt in my mind about that.”

So she's not going to do any research then?

The Times reported that Truss believes that cutting stamp duty – which raises about £12bn a year for the Treasury – would aid growth by encouraging more people to move.

If you want people to move more, fix the property laws in England and Wales to be more like Scotland's so people aren't fearful of an offer being withdrawn hours after spending £1000's preparing a move.

She's using a speech to the UN to wibble about a dated economic model, while parts of the world burn.

Stupidity, ignorance, malice or a combination of all 3?

 

[Artaxerxes]

"cut stamp duty would encourage people to move"


There. Are. No. Fucking. Houses.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Maybe Truss is secretly an accelerationist - everything she says and proposes seems designed to maximise rage and resistance. Honestly can't remember having such a deep and intense hatred for anybody.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Will even the barbarian shithole rags (the Scum, the Daily Sieg Heil etc.) be able to manufacture consent for this pound shop Pinochet? They managed it with the Cameron and Johnson cliques, so I guess it’s possible

 

[a_chap]

I wonder what those "difficult decisions" will turn out to be.

NHS no longer free at the point of need? Cut benefits? Criminalise strike action? Disband legal aid entirely? etc. etc.

 

[Storm Fox]

Will even the barbarian shithole rags (the Scum, the Daily Sieg Heil etc.) be able to manufacture consent for this pound shop Pinochet? They managed it with the Cameron and Johnson cliques, so I guess it’s possible

I think The Express will try as they are totally divorced from reality. The Scum will follow what is popular and by Spring, I think they'll be calling for another Tory Leadership contest.
As for the Mail, I'm not sure. But from their point of view Cameron was competent, Johnson popular and got Brexit done* There might have been someone called May in the middle of all that.

But for Truss, so far as well as fucking over the working class she's setting her sights on fucking over or at least pissing the lower middle classes too, with Fracking and climate denial or messing with the NHS; that's not going to go well.

*This is not a Brexit / Remain argument or whether Brexit is done or not

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The liberal left has convinced itself (mainly through the endless sharing of memes) that Truss is stupid/mad. Now, it appears likely that it will double down on the error by portraying her economic plan in the same terms.

This fatally misunderstanding what is going on. In economic terms, the Truss plan is simple: deliver growth over the next 18 months in advance of the next election. The Tories will understand that some of the traditional policy levers that a Government can pull to achieve growth - import controls, export growth, capital investment and household consumption - are not going to happen. Not in the next 18 months, and not with our disfigured economy developed in the 1980's and not with a cost of living crisis. This leaves one lever: Government spending to deliver consumption.

The tory/Truss plan is betting the UK Economy on this lever. It will though, in the short term, work (and remember Truss and Kwarteng are not thinking further ahead than 18 months). If the Tory plan is to borrow (and then 'spend') around £200-£250Bn then growth is almost inevitable as more money starts to circulate around the system. In fact, it would take a herculean effort for an economy not to grow with so much money pumped in to it.

The 'cultural re-set' demanded by the insurgent right and the sweeping away of regulation and the big state (tbf, I do accept that the Tories will struggle to convince the electorate that the only thing holding Rotherham back is the state, when in fact, its the only thing holding it together) will be explicitly presented, and consent sought, as necessary steps to ensure that growth is not impeded. Add in tax cuts and various other measures (already announced: tax cuts for home buyers, low tax zones, scrap obesity plans and 'woke' Civil Service schemes) and you can see how the Tories can win again in 2024.

Of course, at that point the money is going to need to be 'paid back' because the plan is deliberately calibrated to deliver short term confected growth built on a debt/QE/Gov bond bubble. But that's either a Starmer coalition problem or one to be solved by pulling the austerity lever.

The liberal left celebrated the demise of Johnson as 'the worst PM ever, only to find itself confronted two months later by the new 'worst PM ever'. Any successful resistance or challenge isn't going to come from miles off reductive portrayal's of her as thick or out of her depth. It can only be built on an understanding of what is going on and the inevitable consequences of it.

ETA: Here is the sound of the penny dropping: Ever bold, always cocky and never a mission accomplished: this will be the tale of PM Truss | Rafael Behr

 

[ska invita]

If the Tory plan is to borrow (and then 'spend') around £200-£250Bn

Other than the plan to give public money to energy companies I haven't heard any mention of a borrow and spend plan, the opposite. Have you heard different?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Other than the plan to give public money to energy companies I haven't heard any mention of a borrow and spend plan, the opposite. Have you heard different?

Spend was in inverted commas. The 'spending' will be on energy bills, tax cuts, reversal of NI increase, low tax zones and I would expect a few other 'goodies'

 

[two sheds]

Weren't the illiberal left even just a tiny bit pleased to see Johnson go?

 

[gosub]

I wonder what those "difficult decisions" will turn out to be.

NHS no longer free at the point of need? Cut benefits? Criminalise strike action? Disband legal aid entirely? etc. etc.

what to wear to the coranation!

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Weren't the illiberal left even just a tiny bit pleased to see Johnson go?

This debate was had at the time. I was attacked for pointing out that whilst Johnson was a cunt that his replacement would also be one and therefore there was nothing to celebrate. In reply posters claimed that in places workers apparently broke out into spontaneous cheering upon hearing the news etc and that I was out of order moaning about the workers having a moment of light relief.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, I think we can agree the workers won't be cheering now.

 

[Artaxerxes]

“Can’t get rid of a cunt because he’ll be replaced by a cunt” is no excuse for not getting rid of a cunt.

Just keep scrapping cunts till we get someone who isn’t a cunt. The fight doesn’t end.

 

[SysOut]

illiberal left

.
The Lexiteers, or National "Socialists", are no different than liberals in so far as both go fishing for votes among working people and both have no intention of getting rid of private property.
Please note that the term "left" as used nowadays in the anglophone media has nothing to do with the original meaning in the sense of Robespierre or Marx. It's used in the way the Alt-Right and Trump use it, though one could argue that when used with term "liberal" it is sticking to its 18th century meaning of getting rid of the monarchy which was then, indeed, radical.

 

[maomao]

“Can’t get rid of a cunt because he’ll be replaced by a cunt” is no excuse for not getting rid of a cunt.

Just keep scrapping cunts till we get someone who isn’t a cunt. The fight doesn’t end.

They last a couple of years on average. Scrapping them does nothing to diminish the supply of fresh ones.

 

[Artaxerxes]

They last a couple of years on average. Scrapping them does nothing to diminish the supply of fresh ones.

Still not an excuse to not give the current one as hard a time as possible and cheer when they go

Perfect is the enemy of good

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I wonder what those "difficult decisions" will turn out to be.

NHS no longer free at the point of need? Cut benefits? Criminalise strike action? Disband legal aid entirely? etc. etc.

NHS definitely; Radio 4's Today programme was pushing the need for a move to an insurance based scheme with unequal access this morning.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[SysOut]

If there is a lack of consensus within the ruling class, the UK will be living in interesting times.
I'm thinking of the new monarch and how he will perform and with what discretion.
Off the back of my head, I can think of two monarchies destroyed (unintentionally) by the far-right, Italy and Greece, and the present batch of Tories are quite far over there on the right.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

.
The Lexiteers, or National "Socialists", are no different than liberals in so far as both go fishing for votes among working people and both have no intention of getting rid of private property.
Please note that the term "left" as used nowadays in the anglophone media has nothing to do with the original meaning in the sense of Robespierre or Marx. It's used in the way the Alt-Right and Trump use it, though one could argue that when used with term "liberal" it is sticking to its 18th century meaning of getting rid of the monarchy which was then, indeed, radical.

Cut out the National Socialists crap; the inverted commas don't excuse you.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Artaxerxes]

When even the US president is making noises about trickle down not working then fucking hell is Liz smoking the strong stuff.

 

[SysOut]

Cut out the National Socialists crap; the inverted commas don't excuse you.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Then you don't understand socialism, hence the inverted commas.
We'll leave it at that. The UK has never had any viable leftism.
It's just been that Bernard Cribbins guy in the bowler hat, criticising the worker digging the hole; "you're digging it round, but it ought to be square."
But who got the hole dug?

 

[gosub]

When even the US president is making noises about trickle down not working then fucking hell is Liz smoking the strong stuff.

What isn't working are Biden's ideas that the US isn't in recession and that inflation isn't a problem.


Fed doesn't have to listen to Biden same as MPC doesn't have to listen to Truss and there will be more rate rises this week.

 

[two sheds]

This debate was had at the time. I was attacked for pointing out that whilst Johnson was a cunt that his replacement would also be one and therefore there was nothing to celebrate. In reply posters claimed that in places workers apparently broke out into spontaneous cheering upon hearing the news etc and that I was out of order moaning about the workers having a moment of light relief.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, I think we can agree the workers won't be cheering now.

The problem I have with the illiberal left is that, while they generally have the best political analysis, they're so sneery. You could have said "It's a mistake to ..." rather than "The liberal left ...". I'd guess that a large part of the attacks you got were because of that. Sneering isn't the best way to persuade someone you're correct - particularly if you're sneering at people who basically agree with your political analysis.

And it does come across as a bit killjoy-like to stop people celebrating. What's wrong with celebrating for that brief time and briefly postponing the awareness that the next one's just as bad or worse? The left seems to have little to celebrate as it is.

 

[two sheds]

.
The Lexiteers, or National "Socialists", are no different than liberals in so far as both go fishing for votes among working people and both have no intention of getting rid of private property.
Please note that the term "left" as used nowadays in the anglophone media has nothing to do with the original meaning in the sense of Robespierre or Marx. It's used in the way the Alt-Right and Trump use it, though one could argue that when used with term "liberal" it is sticking to its 18th century meaning of getting rid of the monarchy which was then, indeed, radical.

How would you go about getting rid of private property?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The problem I have with the illiberal left is that, while they generally have the best political analysis, they're so sneery. You could have said "It's a mistake to ..." rather than "The liberal left ...". I'd guess that a large part of the attacks you got were because of that. Sneering isn't the best way to persuade someone you're correct - particularly if you're sneering at people who basically agree with your political analysis.

And it does come across as a bit killjoy-like to stop people celebrating. What's wrong with celebrating for that brief time and briefly postponing the awareness that the next one's just as bad or worse? The left seems to have little to celebrate as it is.

It's not sneering. Liberal left discourse (and by that I mean social media but also when you talk to some of them) is saturated with a) their sense of their own superiority and b) the ridiculous (and disorientating) suggestion that someone who has risen to the top of the tory party is stupid. Perhaps that fatal combination of overestimating yourself and underestimating (or mischaracterizing) the opposition is one of the reasons that there is nothing to celebrate or to work with and build on?

 

[Karl Masks]

Surely the idea that the billions they will spend fuelling growth depends on where that money goes. If it just ends up in tax havens and the bank accounts of oil barons it won't because the rich don't spend in the economy as the rest of us would (have to).

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The EU executive plans to raise about €140bn (£121bn) by imposing windfall taxes on energy companies’ “abnormally high profits” and redirecting proceeds to households and businesses struggling with soaring bills.

EU expects to raise €140bn from windfall tax on energy firms

Cap on outsize revenues will bring solidarity from businesses towards struggling customers, says official

www.theguardian.com

Meanwhile, the Neo-Thatcherite shithole that is the UK will funnel £150bn of public money into the offshore accounts of those companies!

 

[Rob Ray]

I was attacked for pointing out that whilst Johnson was a cunt that his replacement would also be one

Everyone agreed his replacement would be a cunt (I mean of course they would, they're all Tories ffs). From memory the main issue was that you kept calling people idiots for celebrating Johnson's discomfort.