Do you think they can all agree on her replacement though? That has to be sorted out first before more are minded to start hacking away I reckon.
Liz Truss’s time is up
- Thread starter Dogsauce
- Start date
Do you think they can all agree on her replacement though? That has to be sorted out first before more are minded to start hacking away I reckon.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think you set the bar too high when you say it has to be unanimous
elbows
Well-Known Member
The difference between our guesses about the coming weeks may well boil down to the markets. Perhaps they will calm down, perhaps they wont. But factor in that the timing of ditching the chancellor and u-turning on another tax cut yesterday was because yesterday was supposed to be the last day that the bank of england were intervening with a particular market-stabilisation measure. If what was announced yesterday was not deemed to be a suitable replacement for the bank of englands intervention, then there will be more chaos on Monday. That may lead to the bank of england having to step in again. But I suppose it could also lead to stuff such as Truss being forced to announce her resignation 'for the sake of the national interest', if that is deemed to be the only market calming measure that will work and is palatable to our establishment.
andysays
Love and solidarity
There are mechanisms for getting rid of her though.
There is the formal mechanism of letters from MPs leading to a vote of no confidence, and there are also informal mechanisms of senior party figures having a word, persuading her that her position is untenable and she should step aside "for the good of the party", probably dressed up as the good of the country.
I'm not saying either of those things is about to happen, but the mechanisms certainly exist.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Oh there's a mechanism all right, with the men in suits. Do you suppose she chose Jeremy Hunt of her own free will? She is desperate. She won't be enjoying this at all, and I don't get the impression that she is much given to self-sacrifice. She won't quit because it's the decent thing to do but because she can't bear it any longer.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Do you think hunt was her first choice?
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Ha, I don't think he was her choice at all.
Zapp Brannigan
Built like a steakhouse, handles like a bistro
Hunt will sit there as chancellor, projecting his sensible, centrist image that he's somehow cultivated in people who can't remember back to his scorched earth tenures as education, health and culture secretaries. Anything that stabilises in the coming month or 2 will be down to his centrist sensibleness, anything that goes wrong will be down to Truss still being PM.
Then there will come a time when there's a "principled disagreement" between the 2, and Hunt will resign saying that he can't in good conscience enact policies as chancellor he fundamentally disagrees with. Truss will be fatally undermined, more resignations will follow a lá Johnson's "Comedy Wednesday" and she'll be forced to resign.
Meanwhile, Hunt will have been carefully cultivating support rallying around "Team Sensible Centrist" (taking over from Sunak as the Heir Apparent), and the Tory party will face a battle for its very soul between them and the headbangers who would never support remainy one-nation centrist sensibility. Hopefully they all cunt themselves off to oblivion, but in the meantime we're all still fucked because Hunt or someone like Badenoch is PM.
Then there will come a time when there's a "principled disagreement" between the 2, and Hunt will resign saying that he can't in good conscience enact policies as chancellor he fundamentally disagrees with. Truss will be fatally undermined, more resignations will follow a lá Johnson's "Comedy Wednesday" and she'll be forced to resign.
Meanwhile, Hunt will have been carefully cultivating support rallying around "Team Sensible Centrist" (taking over from Sunak as the Heir Apparent), and the Tory party will face a battle for its very soul between them and the headbangers who would never support remainy one-nation centrist sensibility. Hopefully they all cunt themselves off to oblivion, but in the meantime we're all still fucked because Hunt or someone like Badenoch is PM.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I may as well start wanking on about what a potentially useful reality check Trussonomics has provided.
The simplified version of 20th century history tells us that the Suez crisis was an intense reality check on the subject of empire and the extent of British global power and influence, a painful reality check for powerful wings of the tory party and the establishment more broadly.
People may have expected Brexit to offer a similar kind of reality check, but actually so far its been a very long drawn out thing with obfuscated impacts, rather than something intense, and thats provided opportunities for various delusions to endure and be built upon rather than demolished in a few short weeks. Theres a sense that a reckoning over Brexit still looms, that the consequences could intensify and become more obvious at any moment, but until that actually happens the reality check potential is not unlocked.
And now we have Trussonomics, acting as a sort of proxy for the market doom some would have expected from Brexit. Will it set in motion the long overdue Brexit reality check? Even if not, and the fallout is somewhat contained, it should still have set in play the ultimate reality check for the particular thatcherite/free market/neoliberal thinking that infests much of the tory parliamentary party and may force that party to grapple more substantially with how out of touch such beliefs are with the realities of the 21st century, including market realities. I've droned on for years about the ideological vacuum in that party if that particular free market shit is stripped away, and I see others here were talking about that stuff on this thread the other day. The truths exposed by the dirty bomb that is Trussonomics may finally mean they have to take the journey to find something else to fill that vacuum, but I hope this will happen during a new 'winderness years' period for the tories, out of power.
The simplified version of 20th century history tells us that the Suez crisis was an intense reality check on the subject of empire and the extent of British global power and influence, a painful reality check for powerful wings of the tory party and the establishment more broadly.
People may have expected Brexit to offer a similar kind of reality check, but actually so far its been a very long drawn out thing with obfuscated impacts, rather than something intense, and thats provided opportunities for various delusions to endure and be built upon rather than demolished in a few short weeks. Theres a sense that a reckoning over Brexit still looms, that the consequences could intensify and become more obvious at any moment, but until that actually happens the reality check potential is not unlocked.
And now we have Trussonomics, acting as a sort of proxy for the market doom some would have expected from Brexit. Will it set in motion the long overdue Brexit reality check? Even if not, and the fallout is somewhat contained, it should still have set in play the ultimate reality check for the particular thatcherite/free market/neoliberal thinking that infests much of the tory parliamentary party and may force that party to grapple more substantially with how out of touch such beliefs are with the realities of the 21st century, including market realities. I've droned on for years about the ideological vacuum in that party if that particular free market shit is stripped away, and I see others here were talking about that stuff on this thread the other day. The truths exposed by the dirty bomb that is Trussonomics may finally mean they have to take the journey to find something else to fill that vacuum, but I hope this will happen during a new 'winderness years' period for the tories, out of power.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Current detail of the letters mechanism rules mean there is a block there - its not a mechanism that is supposed to be available during the first 12 months of a leaders tenure.
But I dont get all that hung up by such detail because rules can always be changed, or alternatives made use of, and I'm in the never say never, where there is a will there is a way and necessity is the mother of invention camp.
Supine
Newt Member
Hunt is not centrist. They are all right wing low tax, low service provision, selfish twats.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The only "something else" that the tories will find is what the markets are prepared to lend towards. Clearly the markets did not perceive great risk to (their) fundamentals from Brexit, but nonsense Trussonomics increased risks to their returns.
Smangus
comatose at a desk
I for 1 hope she stays and has a really fucking miserable time of it , every second of every hour , of every day.
She fucking deserves this torture for all the misery she has caused and will cause millions of people.
The look on her face at the press conference shows she has realised what a complete fuck up her policies and decisions were and are.
Don't hold your breathe for a GE, they will cling to power until the very last minute.
She fucking deserves this torture for all the misery she has caused and will cause millions of people.
The look on her face at the press conference shows she has realised what a complete fuck up her policies and decisions were and are.
Don't hold your breathe for a GE, they will cling to power until the very last minute.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well its not like I believe in the wisdom of markets, or that the world should be ordered based on pricing signals. And even if I did, there are so many mechanisms by which markets are managed and distorted via interventions including state/state bank intervention.
And I dont think the markets really gave Brexit a clean bill of health, they have just become a part of, at least in the initial phases, the mechanisms for drawing things out into a very long managed crisis rather than a sharp intense one with a giant instant implosion. I could probably make a similar claim about market response to the acute phase of the covid pandemic, and also the giant energy transition story of this century- they arent pricing in the whole story, its being broken down into manageable mini-realisations rather than signalling the doom realisation that would emerge if they had to absorb and come to terms with the full, ultimate implications in one go.
We seem to be in a hybrid era where much of the free market rhetoric remains but where central planning and control really has as vital a role to play in the large energy transition etc. This isnt a completely new, strange world since even at the height of the free market fantasies the other forms of control and management never really went away. But the enormity of the challenges may make some of the free market illusions become harder to maintain, some of the illusions may become obsolete and get in the way. When that is coupled with the prospects of a rethink being required in terms of how much work people do, how much energy their lives consume, and how much of a welfare safety net is required in order to maintain the system under those circumstances, there is potential for some of the rhetoric of the past to be borrowed from. The tories will need to figure out a way to dress this new world up, and they might I suppose borrow some aspects from their rhetoric from the 'one nation toryism' and 'post war consensus' era.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
I'll pass
Plumdaff
joy in people
I largely agree with this, but would add that the current Labour leadership is nearly as in hock to this thinking as the Tories. Therefore I don't see Britain getting out of the doom spiral quickly even with a change of government.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
welcome to the gig economy
Zapp Brannigan
Built like a steakhouse, handles like a bistro
I know that, you know that. But Liberals who for some reason bang on about unity governments featuring Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart seem to have contributed to the rehabilitation of Hunt's image as being from the "moderate" wing of the party - helped in no small part by the Tories' race-to-the-right lunatic fringe lurching ever further.
liberals like Hunt because he made some of the right noises over covid is all.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yep. Compared to where politics and economics was at for much of my lifetime, the last decade or so has seen a broadening of what counts as 'legitimate/viable policy/debate', the mainstream bounds got a bit wider compared to the stiflingly narrow territory occupied by what is laughably called the centre ground. But apart from a few interesting policies in the McDonnell era, the big political parties have managed to mostly ignore this, they havent expanded their comfort zones and there is a sense that very narrow vested interests still hold them utterly captive. And our newspapers excel at keeping stuff suffocatingly narrow.
So its no surprise that Labour under Starmer appears to represent a continuity of that shit. A sense that any positive steps will be such tiny baby steps that they will not even begin to offer a significant correction to the course of this country. And that leaves people like me with the same old sense that has pervaded my entire adult political life, that more meaningful change will only be forced upon the establishment of this country via a series of crises, failures, searching desperately for hope in the backdrop of doom and decay. Viewing it only in those terms probably does overlook some forms of change though, and some forms of looming potential. For example there are some indications that generations fresher than mine do not have as much negative baggage from the failed regimes and ideologies of the 20th century, and at some point those generations will find themselves in the driving seat and will have the opportunity to make some new mistakes and repeat some old ones. But perhaps they will get lucky and circumstances will unlock some potential that was previous squandered or considered unthinkable in ages gone by. Information flows in interesting ways these days, and the curse of oil will not last forever.
Churchill used to go to Chequers to shake off the black dog.Some Tory talking head on the radio earlier saying what will happen is Truss will carry on until next summer then Johnson will be elected leader unopposed.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Which cabal forced him on her? The cameronians or the mayites?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The garden there is littered with stretches of weaving unfinished brick walls
That could be the way back for her?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah its the contrast between the headbanger wing of the tories and the rest, coupled with many liberals not finding it that hard to buy into the idea that the coalition government era of the tories were only doing the sort of austerity shit that any 'responsible' government would have felt the need to have done in that particular period. File in the same bin as all the wank about the lib dems being a restraining force on the tories during those years.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
No, she's too far gone
What, if she trips on a brick and breaks her leg? I'd accept her coming back to London one last time, via ambulance, to get it pinned - if she doesn't mind waiting in the queue for several hours.
I thought PM was suggesting she could rebuild her career but hungover dunno
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