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Living Bar: Racist

(Just because staff are non-white, it doesn't mean that they can't be or enforce racist corporate policy. Denny's in the US got serious done for refusing service or making uncomfortable black customers at night, and were fined millions of dollars. This was despite the fact that most of this discrimination was actually being performed by black restaurant employees). (Personally, I'm inclined to see planning laws and proper consultation as one of the few tools ordinary residents have against corporate abuse - and when they start to get chipped away at, then citizens' meagre rights are being abused. It's the camel's nose in the tent).
 
Originally posted by Dangerous
Whoah, just a minute!

I am new to U75, but there is clearly alot of acrimony towards Lawrence and his bars. Is this because of his success and any perceived effects this has had on the gentrification of Brixton? There is much talk of old and new Brixton, but surely aren't we all new?

Ah, ri-i-i-i-i-ight, so we're jealous.
Personally, I am jealous of the way he blocks the pavement in Electric Lane every Saturday and Sunday morning with a huge, steaming pile of reeking rubbish bags, leaking odious alcopops, mexican piss-beer and squished lime slices into the gutter. I just wish I could do that on MY street...
Just goes to show what a community minded guy he is. ;)
 
Dangerous - Great first post.

I've been more open to the Living than maybe other people on this board as my wife likes it there. I do get a little miffed about people who say that people who go there are boring/mainstream, etc. as it feels sometimes like an attack on my wife. That's besides the point anyway. I also haven't been affected directly by any of the issues raised in this thread.

However, people I know and trust have told me about their experiences and I value their judgements and both my wife and I are unlikely to drink there until we know more about the situation.

The only way anybody is to find out what is happening is by people having an honest debate, which in fairness needs input from both sides. But until I hear otherwise I'm going to trust my friends opinions.
 
I personally don't like Mr Merrit. But that is irrelevant. I can assure readers here that too many people in Brixton have had too many negative experiences of Mr Merrit and his bars for this to be a matter of afew jealous people.

Anyone with an ear to the ground in Brixton knows Mr Merrit is widely despised. Not for his success, but for his greed, racism and flagrant disdain for the people of the area he has chosen to exploit.
 
A few comments:

Society at large is racist so believe me there is a lot of racism out there in the entertainment / leisure industry.

I don't think we should confuse the planning permission debate with the allegations of racism.

It seems that the Living Bar deliberately post a bouncer blocking the door for a sort of scarecrow effect. Anyone else noticed this? Believe me this can have a psychological effect on Black / Asian males.

I was turned away from the Dogstar back in 1998 by a white bouncer who said come back with your girlfriend mate (I'm asian). I carried on going there later as I figured it was just a racist individual.

Last year, the Dogstar had a predominately black/mixed nite on Tuesdays called Bullitt (rap music) which was good.

My own thoughts on Dogstar and Living are that the bar staff are mainly O.K. but the management are ruthless.

Maybe we should test Living out to see if this couples only policy is enforced with white middle-class men as well. We should try to be objective before calling for a boycott.

When Living Bar opened there were accusations of racism on the chitchat area of the living bar's website

This seems to have been the management response...

Bored:
"the living room doesn't have a problem with colour but it IS an issue in brixton: i have never seen such segregation, white bars or black bars & not alot of mixing going on. don't want to sound corny bt we are all one family, so see beyond the surface. " 09/06/01 , 18:19:43
 
Just to be clear: is the implication of your last paragraph that the Living Room put a message which implictly or explictly said "it's not us that's racist, it's everyone else that hates us because we're not black"? Or have I totally misread what you've said?

(Genuinely confused).
 
Thanks for the support, Scott. As a virgin here was a bit reluctant to post such a long counter one….

Point taken John: staff make up does not necessarily reflect management policy and that there are issues (rubbish etc) that piss off the community. Could not all of these issues be raised directly with Lawrence? I don’t know him personally, but from looking at other threads, he seems open to comments from the public, and willing to ‘address’ problems.

On the door policy, why does excluding men-only as opposed to women-men = racism? Only if the rule only applies to minorities only. Are there white men that may have been turned away for this reason? As a girl myself, it can be really intimidating to be in bar (cattle market style) that is predominantly male, other than most gay bars i know.

On the rubbish thing – this a a problem all over a London and reflects the crap so-called services that we get from the council. Have you been to the West End at any time of day? I try to avoid it but when I do go its hard not to fall over the shite that litters the pavements and although not as extreme you can see it all over the place, from Camden to Clerkenwell.

On the empire expanding ICA-style, surely now is the time to raise all concerns in a constructive & direct way, so that problems are resolved quickly. You can be sure that if the Living crew do not develop Brixton Cycles, some other business will, possibly one that is far more damaging for the community. Although business can buy policies, there seems to be a human face here. If he has any sense, I would have thought that (especially where it concerned his business) he should be more than happy to resolve such issues.

I simply wanted to put out some facts from the other side of the fence. It is quite easy to jump on the bandwagon of racism and clearly there are a lot of people in Brixton that would like to see Merritt fail. But it is also easy to get all hysterical especially when it comes to race issues. Personally, I feel really strongly that sparking more conflict in Brixton, especially if unsubstantiated, could have really detrimental effects for the community. As I mentioned in my earlier post, Brixton does not need any more tension. Take the latest ‘riots’, the old riots and riots from Toxteth to Handsworth: there are a lot of people out there happy and willing to loot and fight whether they know what the cause is about or not. This is not a reason to overlook any form of discrimination. Far from it. It is more a ‘warning’ that it should be handled super-sensitively.

I abhore racism! To provide a bit of background info so you can see where I am coming from: I am pretty mixed myself and my friends are all shapes, sizes, colours and have a pretty wide range of sexual leanings as well. I know of the hardship, poverty and misery that racism causes, and have never understood how we (the human race) can judge someone on colour, sexuality or any other factor. On politics, I vote green, and believe that as individuals we can turn the tide. Should a candidate from the BNP come to stand a chance of getting in, à la Le Penn, I would would have no reluctance to ‘use’ my vote to try to ensure that he/she did not get in.

Apolgies, this was not meant to be another long one. Promise I wont do it again!

BTW the name dangerous is a bit of a misnomer (had to look it up!) and the result of a bit of a wobbly night. Can I change it please?
 
'Dangerous', for somebody who 'doesn't know Laurence personally', you seem to have an AWFULLY big vested interest.
And your assertion about rubbish being a problem everywhere and ultimately the fault of the council is 100% per cent prime bullshit. Local people shouldn't HAVE to 'take it up' with Laurence that he is piling stinking rubbish on public thoroughfares.
Also, your suggestion that if the 'Living crew' ,as you cosily call them , don't take over Brixton cycles, it could be turned into something 'worse' is UTTERLY LUDICROUS. Like WHAT??
Funny that you should want to change your username. It does seem a very ODD choice for a girl.
So why ARE you defending Laurence Merret?
In my experience, those who come on these boards assuming that people are gullible and stupid usually get a major kick up the ass.
If I was pretending to be somebody else online, it would be an obvious step to change my apparent gender. I might even go so far as to spell my own name wrong......... ;)
 
IntoStella, I think your attack on Dangerous is a bit harsh. Why, if it comes to it, are you attacking LM? Your posts to this thread indicate a minor concern about planning and a (joke) desire to strew your street with rubbish. So why the attack?

Declaration of interest: none. I've never been in Living/Dogstar/Albert nor have I any intention of doing so. All I know about this is what I read here. Further interest: I'd prefer it if there were less alcohol outlets in Brixton (trendy or otherwise)- but that's just me and my preferences. Another big one in CHL strikes me as a bad idea, whoever owns it.

It does strike me though, that Ruby made a good point when she said "without more actual evidence of racism it just sounds like a lynch mob".

The email at the top boils down to DJ gets gig bumped and falls out with owner because of what 3rd party says owner said. That's a 'dog bites man' story. Within this thread there is precious little direct, personal evidence ("this happened to me ") to support the allegations of racism, although there is sufficient anecdotal evidence from people who appear to know, so I don't doubt that there is a perceived problem. Yet Dr M, to whom it happened personally, chose to continue to go there: is the conclusion really cut & dried?

I don't think anyone has yet offered a suggestion as to why a racist should open a bar in Brixton, or why bar owner with a major business in Brixton should become racist (which may be the allegation). As the email at the top says "Black money spends just the same as white money". So what business excludes paying punters? Is it possible (please bear in mind that I really don't know before you flame me: this is a genuine question) that the door policy is to exclude groups of men, and/or the poor or those in search of a local, in favour of starry eyed tourists easily parted from their money?

Dangerous, given that you've only posted to this thread, why not just register another name, tell us 'Soft&Fluffy' used to be 'Dangerous' and I'm sure we'll live with it. It's a hostage to fortune as it stands, if you're not trying to troll.
 
I know well respected people in Brixton, black men, gays and lesbians (sorry love, couples only....meaning heterosexual couples that is.....) who have been refused entry to Dogstar and Lebensraum, even when they have had people inside waiting for them. My daughter fainted outside Lebensraum last year and was told it was £1.75 for a glass of water brought to her. A Somalian woman was being badly hassled by white youth while the Living door staff looked on until a young girl demanded that they assist...yeah great fucking community spirit.

Also Dangerous, Larry, Larry's typist, or whoever you are, yes there are places that tend to have mostly black faces, mainly because of the music played there eg The Angel and Harmony BUT I as a white person, whether on my own or with other white people, gay or straight, have always been made very welcome indeed and feel perfectly comfortable and unhassled there. (I do wish though that when I ask for a glass of wine in the Angel I had a bigger choice than Liebfraumilch or Black Tower......is that racism or classism because they don't do Chablis Spritzer?) You are saying then, with your obvious hotline to Larry, if I turned up with regulars from the Angel or Harmony we would be let in to Lebensraum or the Dogstar?...................brief pause whilst I pick myself up from the floor and wipe up the wee because I have pissed myself laughing. Many people who drink in the Angel were 'displaced' when the Atlantic became the Dogstar, and the Coach and Horses became Isobar, then Lebensraum.

I have more to say...just the planning stuff, the litter, the increasing rumours of bouncing cheques, racism and homophobia, the increase in Drugs tourists that I have witnessed scoring and then pootling straight into Lebensraum and the Dogstar, the complete lack of consideration for local residents would each take up a thread on their own. It doesn't help that some of the Larry Inner Circle have been loudly boasting around Coldharbour Lane of what they can and have been getting away with (and even at Pat's Wake too.......words fail me.) I am a dowdy middle-aged woman and so I am rendered 'invisible' a lot of the time. It means that I hear and see stuff all the time and no one even notices that I am there, taking it all in and noting for future reference.

......I have loads of other stuff I could say but I am busy with lots of more important family and work stuff to deal with today. Unless there is a radical shift in the attitude and policies of Team Merret then I think that there is likely to be a vociferous organised broad cross-section campaign formed, gathering strength with every recorded incident.
 
I say again:

Anyone with an ear to the ground in Brixton knows Mr Merrit is widely despised. Not for his success, but for his greed, racism and flagrant disdain for the people of the area he has chosen to exploit.
 
sorry scott for offending you with boring/mainstream, i certainly did not intend to offend.

but i do think that it is harder for people who are non european, or the white midddle class type to get into the livingroom.

which can make it a bit ... boring, but i only speak about friday and saturday's here. i'am also a direct neighbour of the living room and dogstar but don't feel too disturbed by the litter or noise. i actually like that brixton gets trendier but wished that more different kind of locations would open instead of one success-concept everywhere.

@ detective boy: maby we should open a discussion of those rumors (s.a) on the drug board ;) .
 
Couples Only Policy

A 'couples-only' policy to keep out most blacks is overt racism / classism.

A 'couples-only' policy to turn away males in Brixton is covert racism / exclusive bullshit.

Even turning away the odd troublemaker with a 'couples-only' policy is bullshit as they should just be straight with people and say "YOU are not allowed in here".

I am more than happy to join Hatboy and others in picketing Living Bar if there is still a 'couples-only' policy, but we need the involvement of black Brixtonians.
 
And hataphobia as well, I got asked to take mine off about two steps into the place

Refused and went to the Albert

Never been back
 
ooooh! are you the handsome man with the black fedora?....why am I here?...I should be working out the spec. for a fountain........
 
Will try and keep this one short.

Intostella:

If I am who you think I am, do you think I would quite so publicly want to change my dodgy username? If you have a look, I signed up to U75 in April. I have been pretty busy, and have not felt compelled enough to subscribe to a thread until now. Is this a crime?

In defence of my defence of lawrence (laurence-WTF?!): this thread has, as newbie suggests, been based pretty much on hear-say. My BIG vested interest as you nicely put it, is from someone who has enjoyed going to the bar. I feel like i have tried to highlight some facts, and present another point of view to what has pretty much been a one-sided attack.

I do not know the bloke (therefore I do not know it is spelt, sorry) personally. If i did, and if he is as Hatboy & others suggests, believe me I would not be defending him. If you have a look at my msges, they have tried to present a more open view, counter to those on the board. My vested interest, if any, is to try to avoid engendering any kind of witchhunt, escalation of racial tension in brixton etc. which it seems to be headed in.

If that doesn't suffice i am happy to prove my identity to you. Not sure how these things work, via a message board or something (?), although judging from the tone of your msg you wouldnt believe me anyway! Sorry to be such a disappointing illusion.

From a soft and fluffy girl, who used to be a dangerous one
 
sorry scott for offending you with boring/mainstream, i certainly did not intend to offend.

Gea - no problem. :) I wasn't trying to single you out at all. I didn't even remember who posted what.

I've just got the impression that people who went to the Living weren't worth knowing. That impression wasn't just from your post but from others as well and talking to people also.

I could be a little sensitive. :oops:
 
Dr Maboozer - well, hold on a wee bit there - a couples-only policy (actually a no men without a female escort policy, seeing as women never get stopped by it) is not necessarily racist if it's applied to all men equally. This is the central question and I am more than willing to defer to people with better local knowledge than me on this - but I'm just making the point it's not always racist. However, it's strongly arguable that it's homophobic and 100% arguable that it's the sign of a really shitty bar, IMO.

Hats - usually the point is that it's moody stroppy kids that wear baseball caps and it's a marker for troublemakers, at least this is what my bouncer mate tells me (by the way, I don't believe that what he says is racially motivated for the simple fact he's not racist, and he works in Bath where there are as far as I can see no black people, and all the kids that get stopped by it are white). I've noticed in Central London that bouncers at some places where guys wear hats will get them to take it off at the door and get them to look up at a CCTV for a mo so they're taped clearly, then let them put it back on.

As someone who doesn't live in Brixton, I certainly feel the suggestion that these bars are mostly patronised (and I think I do mean patronised) by people from outside Brixton AND would not be willing for their neighbourhoods to be treated in the same way as Brixton is, is a relevant issue to all this. It's like a microcosm of Cuban or Thai tourism - people go across somewhere for attitudes and behaviour that they would not stand for at home.
 
Originally posted by Dangerous
This thread has, as newbie suggests, been based pretty much on hear-say.
S&FG aka Dangerous,
This is simply not true. Many people have posted on these boards with first hand and sometimes WELL DOCUMENTED evidence to back up their complaints.
I still can't understand why it means so much to you just because you 'have enjoyed going there'. The people who are making the complaints are not doing so out of sour grapes. They have real and legitimate grievances. What makes you think their complaints AREN'T legitimate? Why make such an effort to defend 'the bloke' when you don't actually know him, allegedly, OR the people who are making the complaints?
This is not a witchhunt.
Doesn't a community have the right to defend itself against disruption and exploitation?
:confused:
 
Dangerous said:

"Personally, I feel really strongly that sparking more conflict in Brixton could have really detrimental effects for the community. As I mentioned in my earlier post, Brixton does not need any more tension".

Well ask your mate Laurence if he'd care to sell up to a more tolerant, accepting person then.

Newbie said:

"I don't think anyone has yet offered a suggestion as to why a racist should open a bar in Brixton, or why bar owner with a major business in Brixton should become racist".

1) Because he wanted to milk Brixton Challenge for grants, because he wants to further exploit Brixton's status as a weekend clubbers' destination regardless of locals' needs or wishes.

2) He didn't become, he always was. A priviledged, Eton-educated elitist who saw an opportunity to make a killing in a formerly run-down part of London.


There's another issue here too which others have touched on: Many locals clearly do not want Laurence Merrit to monopolise central Brixton. There should be controls to prevent his empire expanding to the detriment of other businesses and locals' concerns.
 
If as some have suggested I think, the Merrett empire plans to buy up the Albert, opposing that would be the a focal point for a broader campaign ...
 
Originally posted by William of Walworth
If as some have suggested I think, the Merrett empire plans to buy up the Albert, opposing that would be the a focal point for a broader campaign ...

He couldn't buy it but he MIGHT be able to lease it...the brewery do franchise or leasehold....I am not worried about the Albert as yet. Trevor, who is managing it at the moment, and knew Pat and whom Pat trusted, is being very open about any developments with the regulars....so far, apart from the massive void where Pat should be, some regulars a bit tearful because we miss Pat dreadfully, and the Stella shirts, the Albert is much the same. The brewery know that the Albert broke all the corporate rules for profitability, but still made a good profit. They know that without the goodwill of the regulars, that pub won't continue to be profitable. They are not stupid.
 
hatboy has got a good point by asking why the hell should a barowner in brixton be a racist!? i mean how difficult does one make his/her life?

i've been thinking in the bus from work home, and maby this is dangerous ground but ,as a female who went to the dogstar a lot about 2 years ago i (like other girl friends) was hassled on the dancefloor by lonley men who wanted to dance (and whatever else) with me/us. the sort of opposite each other maby quite tight dance style that i just can't dance and don't feel comfortable with. the dogstar dancefloor was always a bit of a shark-basain where all sorts of men circle you in tighter and tighter till you give in and stop dancing. maby these are reasons for the door policys because if you make people pay in a lot of money it is only in the owners interest to avoid having too many of one sex and different type of dancing techniques, if the place is geared to cater for the middleclass type (which it definitly is on the weekends).

saying this i don't mean that this sort of thinking is cool, especially not in the first place. everyone who is ever been in the bug bar on sundays knows that homos heteros blacks whites and everyone else look fantastic together and the dancefloor works as well.

as for foreign barstaff, i think, in london, even the biggest racist would draw a line here because every owner loves foreign barstaff, who else would work nightshifts for 3.50 an hour!!
 
Originally posted by gea
hatboy has got a good point by asking why the hell should a barowner in brixton be a racist!? i mean how difficult does one make his/her life?

Hatboy didn't say this, Newbie did. Hatboy quoted Newbie and then listed reasons why a racist person might have started a business in Brixton.

Also re dancing and sharks circling. There are staff who are meant to stop trouble like that. A mark of a bad bar if lone females get hassled I'd say. The one and only time a bloke bothered me in the Albert and wouldn't go away, Pat chucked him out with a loud "The lady asked you leave her alone. GET OUT!"

Is there dancing in Living?...dont think so.....
 
oh, dear! good point anyway ;)

edited to say now i confused things totally. however quoting is bending facts towards what suits best, ..sometimes :rolleyes: this has just happend here sorry newbie and hatboy i usually try to read posts properly!
 
Yes there is dancing in the Living Bar Mrs M, often.

Back to the subject: Just look at the detail in post one on this thread. And Richard's experience ties in with what myself and others have witnessed/experienced for years.

Please can people stop saying "Are you sure?" and "Could this really happen?"

YES IT CAN HAPPEN

YES IT IS HAPPENING

As I've said before Mr Merrit's exploitation of Brixton an it's people IS a scandal. But of course nothing will happen. Nothing will change. Money, power and connections high up always win.

Let's all give up and become money-grabbing racist little shits who don't give a fuck about anyone. That's clearly the way to get on.

:( :mad:
 
Originally posted by hatboy
Yes there is dancing in the Living Bar Mrs M, often.
I stand corrected. I know there is space to dance in the Dogstar, but I only went into Living once, during the day, and there were chairs and tables filling the space and no room for dancing.

<removed mis-understanding>
 
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