Lib Dem Polls - How Low Can They Go?

[Streathamite]

if i remember rightly (this is purely off the top of my head based on half remembered A Level stuff so i might be talking utter shite) there are/were at least two "types" of lib dems, one of them was the economic liberals / basically extreme tories (and if you look at their record, they were actually WORSE than tories, the tories were marginally better - it was the tories who introduced the first "modifications" to an utterly free market system as advocated by the 19th Century liberals after it had led directly to deaths of all those people in the Irish Famine when people were left to starve partly because of ideological/financial reasons. then there were the "liberal reformers" of Lloyd George et al who introduced the beginings of the welfare state in the 1910s. there were always tensions between the two types of liberals, and im not too sure about the details because i normally am not particularly interested in that kind of thing but they were two parties at one stage right?? the liberals and the SDP who if i remember rightly were more of the economically liberal type of lib dem. recently, as in the last 20 years, the lib dems moved (or appeared to move) to the left and a lot of people thought they were the left of labour, and attracted a lot of centre left voters. but that element of free market fundamentalism, and also the opportunism that they developed as a political strategy (ie changing their views all the time) has never really gone away

someone stop me if im talking bollocks, a lot of the historical stuff i mentioned i really ought to look at agiain at some point so it might be bollocks ...

This explains most of it; however, what's happened in the past five years or so is that the Orange Bookers have totally won ascendancy in the party over those Liberals who believed in combiniing civil libertarianism with social and economic justice

 

[butchersapron]

they were in the SDP? sorry, i must sound so stupid, but i didnt actually know this.

Yep. They were both in the labour party before that. Cable was high up influential labour councillor.

 

[Streathamite]

ohhh ok so, did they then become part of the lib dems? what are they all doing now?

Owen flounced out of mainstream UK politics, their party got swallowed up by the much bigger Liberal party, about 1/3 of the original SDPers crawled back to Labour when hey saw - to their delight - that Blair made Denis Healey look like a placard-waving trot, by comparison, and the rest have been dragging the libdems rightwards ever since

 

[Streathamite]

Yep. They were both in the labour party before that. Cable was high up influential labour councillor.

wasn't Huhne's major involvement with Labour of the stoodent politics variety?

 

[butchersapron]

Owen flounced out of mainstream UK politics, their party got swallowed up by the much bigger Liberal party, about 1/3 of the original SDPers crawled back to Labour when hey saw - to their delight - that Blair made Denis Healey look like a placard-waving trot, by comparison, and the rest have been dragging the libdems rightwards ever since

...and a hell of a lot have also ended up on the tory frontbench/leading positions - Andrew Lansley, Chris Grayling, David Mundell, Greg Clark...

 

[butchersapron]

wasn't Huhne's major involvement with Labour of the stoodent politics variety?

Well, the highest powered student politics you can get - the exec of the Oxford University Labour Club...

 

[frogwoman]

This explains most of it; however, what's happened in the past five years or so is that the Orange Bookers have totally won ascendancy in the party over those Liberals who believed in combiniing civil libertarianism with social and economic justice

yep although the liberal party is still going, they got a few councillors near round my way

 

[little_legs]

glover is complaining about the polls too:

A Times/Populus poll published today puts Labour in the lead for the first time in the series since November 2007 - with Labour on 38%, the Conservatives on 37% and the Lib Dems on 15%.

One clear difference between the latest ICM and Populus polls and some other surveys is in the level of Lib Dem support, which remains higher in ICM surveys than most others. The most recent online YouGov poll put the LibDems on only 10%, for instance.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/oct/26/voters-cuts-coalition-poll

 

[Mr Blob]

yep although the liberal party is still going, they got a few councillors near round my way

In Lewisham the libdems lost many councillors to Labour in May. And since they joined the Tories many local members have deserted the libdems and joined Lewisham Labour

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

yep although the liberal party is still going, they got a few councillors near round my way

The rump Liberal Party actually do a appear to be a moderate centre left party to the left of Labour on most things. They were part of NO2EU at the euros with your lot.

 

[frogwoman]

yea i looked at their website, they seem quite sound on a lot of things!

 

[nino_savatte]

yep although the liberal party is still going, they got a few councillors near round my way

I hear that splitter Michael Meadowcroft has been welcomed into the Lib Dems. What does this mean for the Liberals?

 

[nino_savatte]

This explains most of it; however, what's happened in the past five years or so is that the Orange Bookers have totally won ascendancy in the party over those Liberals who believed in combiniing civil libertarianism with social and economic justice

We can thank Emperor Ming for that. He welcomed them into his front bench team only to get knifed in the back by the same bunch he gave a leg up.

 

[Streathamite]

...and a hell of a lot have also ended up on the tory frontbench/leading positions - Andrew Lansley, Chris Grayling, David Mundell, Greg Clark...

absolutely true. I was rush posting/multitasking, but I should have added that more than a few did a 'prentice flip', as it were, and found a new spiritual home inthe tories. Which, in retrospect, should surprise absolutely no-one

 

[Streathamite]

Well, the highest powered student politics you can get - the exec of the Oxford University Labour Club...

yeah, that really IS as creme de la creme as it gets!
not so much the People's Party as the Top People's Party...

 

[Streathamite]

I hear that splitter Michael Meadowcroft has been welcomed into the Lib Dems. What does this mean for the Liberals?

more sexual hijinks, if the old boy's still up to it. He was famous for it back in the day...

 

[moon23]

yep although the liberal party is still going, they got a few councillors near round my way

Steve Radford over in Liverpool is an amazing Liberal party Councillor. The relationship between social justice and liberalism is not a straight forward one. The orange book liberals are more philosophically consistent.

 

[Streathamite]

. The relationship between social justice and liberalism is not a straight forward one.

But straightforward enough for the old Liberal party to get the hang of easily enough, ditto the libdems up until 5 years ago

The orange book liberals are more philosophically consistent

yup-consistently totally socially unjust. Theirs is a neo-liberal credo 100%, and issues of social equality, not to mention redistributionism were ditched years ago

 

[elbows]

I think I need a short break from ranting about politics, last night a small part of a strange dream consisted of me seeing Vince Cable in a bar and getting in his face and shouting at him about various policies.

 

[Proper Tidy]

The rump Liberal Party actually do a appear to be a moderate centre left party to the left of Labour on most things. They were part of NO2EU at the euros with your lot.

Well, one Liberal councillor stood for No2EU, on the insistence of the CPB. I'm still not sure why.

 

[Sgt Howie]

I think I need a short break from ranting about politics, last night a small part of a strange dream consisted of me seeing Vince Cable in a bar and getting in his face and shouting at him about various policies.

He wouldn't have hung around long:

The Business Secretary Vince Cable has pulled out of a planned visit to Oxford University where students were planning a protest.

He was due to take part in a seminar organised by Brasenose College.

Students from Oxford and Oxford Brookes universities had planned to demonstrate against the government's higher education policies.

A spokesman for Mr Cable said the decision was taken after advice from the police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11639542

 

[butchersapron]

Lib-dems now into single figures in Scotland and Wales (both regional constituency elections).

Scotland:

Westminster: CON 18%, LAB 44%, LDEM 7%, SNP 26%
Holyrood constituency: CON 14%, LAB 40%, LDEM 8%, SNP 34%
Holyrood Regional: CON 15%, LAB 36%, LDEM 8%, SNP 31%, Green 6%

Wales

Constituency: CON 19%(-3), LAB 44%(nc), LDEM 9%(-2), PC 21%(+2)
Regional: CON 18%(-2), LAB 40%(-1), LDEM 9%(-3), PC 23%(+4)

 

[where to]

Lib-dems now into single figures in Scotland and Wales (both regional constituency elections).

the Greens will probably benefit in Scotland off the back of this.

 

[shagnasty]

Lib-dems now into single figures in Scotland and Wales (both regional constituency elections).

Scotland:

Westminster: CON 18%, LAB 44%, LDEM 7%, SNP 26%
Holyrood constituency: CON 14%, LAB 40%, LDEM 8%, SNP 34%
Holyrood Regional: CON 15%, LAB 36%, LDEM 8%, SNP 31%, Green 6%

Wales

Constituency: CON 19%(-3), LAB 44%(nc), LDEM 9%(-2), PC 21%(+2)
Regional: CON 18%(-2), LAB 40%(-1), LDEM 9%(-3), PC 23%(+4)

Now that doesn't look good at all

 

[Goatherd]

Dave Cameron on the screen today
convinced the Liberals it's okay..

 

[Pickman's model]

Lib-dems now into single figures in Scotland and Wales (both regional constituency elections).

Scotland:

Westminster: CON 18%, LAB 44%, LDEM 7%, SNP 26%
Holyrood constituency: CON 14%, LAB 40%, LDEM 8%, SNP 34%
Holyrood Regional: CON 15%, LAB 36%, LDEM 8%, SNP 31%, Green 6%

Wales

Constituency: CON 19%(-3), LAB 44%(nc), LDEM 9%(-2), PC 21%(+2)
Regional: CON 18%(-2), LAB 40%(-1), LDEM 9%(-3), PC 23%(+4)

haha

 

[Streathamite]

Lib-dems now into single figures in Scotland and Wales (both regional constituency elections).

Scotland:

Westminster: CON 18%, LAB 44%, LDEM 7%, SNP 26%
Holyrood constituency: CON 14%, LAB 40%, LDEM 8%, SNP 34%
Holyrood Regional: CON 15%, LAB 36%, LDEM 8%, SNP 31%, Green 6%

Wales

Constituency: CON 19%(-3), LAB 44%(nc), LDEM 9%(-2), PC 21%(+2)
Regional: CON 18%(-2), LAB 40%(-1), LDEM 9%(-3), PC 23%(+4)

glorious news!
one slight problem - scotland link - "page not found"

 

[frogwoman]

thats fucking awesome

 

[butchersapron]

glorious news!
one slight problem - scotland link - "page not found"

Odd, you can find the figures at the bottom here

 

[frogwoman]

what are todays figures butchers?