I'd rather things like the pupil premuim were being enacted than not, again evidence the Lib Dems are rounding the worse edges off the Tories- http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/24/pupil-premium-promise-delivered
Lib Dem Polls - How Low Can They Go?
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no. the Lib Dems let them govern.
What was the pupil premium pledge? More money for schools?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
But moon the lib dems allowd them into government.
Yep, and they are never going to be forgiven for this. They are crapping themselves now they've realised what they've done.
Cant wait until polling day. They're toast.
elbows
Well-Known Member
They arent rounding off the worst excesses of the Tories, indeed Clegg & Co are both providing cover and helpfully taking heat away from Cameron, Osborne, IDS & Gove.
At best, in terms of policy, they are offering a few consolation prizes, but these arent enough to make up for the horror they are enabling by supporting the Tory regime. Even if we remove any unjust criticism they are getting as a result of some Lib Dems voters expectations being set far too high, or completely misunderstanding what Lib Dems actually stand for, its still a tall order to see them in a positive light.
It was clear well before the election that the winners would get a poisoned chalice. That the Tories and Lib Dems chose to face this by drinking heartily and greedily from it is not going to help matters.
At best, in terms of policy, they are offering a few consolation prizes, but these arent enough to make up for the horror they are enabling by supporting the Tory regime. Even if we remove any unjust criticism they are getting as a result of some Lib Dems voters expectations being set far too high, or completely misunderstanding what Lib Dems actually stand for, its still a tall order to see them in a positive light.
It was clear well before the election that the winners would get a poisoned chalice. That the Tories and Lib Dems chose to face this by drinking heartily and greedily from it is not going to help matters.
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
In the main, those that voted for them (the LD's, that is) feel betrayed or at the least, horribly let down ... A lot of the lib dem 'compromises' will not be forgotten come election day...
This. I'm willing to admit I voted for them at the last election, and I felt dirty doing so. I don't think I would have felt so bad if I were in a Tory safe seat as opposed to a Labour one, but thankfully for my conscience my vote ended up meaning nothing. I naively wanted to see a political system other than the status quo, giving minority voices more power, and hoping for the result to be a Conservative government neutered by libdems, preferably as a minority government. Instead we get this "marvellous coalition" empowering Osbourne and his ilk to shit all over everyone whilst blaming Labour and shielding behind the libdems. What a shower of shits the lot of them..
It goes beyond that, in fiscal terms they're the hard right of the coalition. If anything it's been the likes of Fox and IDS who've been arguing in cabinet for reduced cuts against the opposition of Clegg, Huhne, Alexander etc.
This is the key, the Libdems are bolstering the hard Cameronite-Osbornist neo-liberal wing against the slightly more paternalistic christian democratic wing of the Tory party.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No you didn't, you did no such thing - as i immediately pointed out to to you. You gave a link to a crude criticism of a methodology that yougov have now altered precisely because it was returning falsely high polling results for the lib-dems. And, as i also pointed out, that article is not about the lib-dems are mentioned once and in passing, nothing to do with the substantive content of the article. It seems likely to me from your first post and the subsequent transparently desperate googling that you did in fact believe the opt-in yogov joke stuff. ther stuff where you go to their site and fill in questionnaires for a a few pence forms the basis for their polling.
Next time try reading both the thread and your crap links.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah you are probably right on that one, at least to a certain extent. Im not sure they are further to the fiscal right than Osborne though.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh what lies! Not a single extra penny has been given to the education budget to cover it - it simply robs (state pupil) Peter to pay (state pupil) Paul
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
That's the honest type of LD voter I can respect. It's those who are STILL trying to big up the libs NOW, after all they've signed up to, that I have nothing but contempt for
Fruitloop said:
A lot in this to explain quite a lot!
Saying that though, how long have the Orange Book tendancy been free market fruitloops? Quite a bit longer than many are aware I suspect.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
if i remember rightly (this is purely off the top of my head based on half remembered A Level stuff so i might be talking utter shite) there are/were at least two "types" of lib dems, one of them was the economic liberals / basically extreme tories (and if you look at their record, they were actually WORSE than tories, the tories were marginally better - it was the tories who introduced the first "modifications" to an utterly free market system as advocated by the 19th Century liberals after it had led directly to deaths of all those people in the Irish Famine when people were left to starve partly because of ideological/financial reasons. then there were the "liberal reformers" of Lloyd George et al who introduced the beginings of the welfare state in the 1910s. there were always tensions between the two types of liberals, and im not too sure about the details because i normally am not particularly interested in that kind of thing but they were two parties at one stage right?? the liberals and the SDP who if i remember rightly were more of the economically liberal type of lib dem. recently, as in the last 20 years, the lib dems moved (or appeared to move) to the left and a lot of people thought they were the left of labour, and attracted a lot of centre left voters. but that element of free market fundamentalism, and also the opportunism that they developed as a political strategy (ie changing their views all the time) has never really gone away
someone stop me if im talking bollocks, a lot of the historical stuff i mentioned i really ought to look at agiain at some point so it might be bollocks ...
Indeed. St Vince being one of them.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
they split from the *right* of the labour party?
Yes
They then went on to spend most of the Eighties as part of the SDP-Liberal Alliance with two leaders (Davids Steel and Owen).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well Vince Cable and Chris Huhne are fronting the cuts.
they split from the *right* of the labour party?
On a pro-Common Market, anti-nationalisation, anti-union, pro-Atlanticist, pro-Trident platform.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
they were in the SDP? sorry, i must sound so stupid, but i didnt actually know this.
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