so your insinuation that you and all other "proper proles" are superior to MC people is based on an absurd premise, easily countered by other "real life" examples.
Let's have a class thread! It'll be fun!
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so your insinuation that you and all other "proper proles" are superior to MC people is based on an absurd premise, easily countered by other "real life" examples.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
That's just easy. No need to lift a finger ever again to live a more luxurious and well-fed life than the average worker could afford in, ooh, let's say a few dozen to several thousand lifetimes.
audiotech
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TruXta
tired
_angel_
.
It's confusing isn't it, people and things change during their lifetimes.
ETA what class are my kids for example. Graduate parent not working, fulltime carer, council house, self employed on tax credits?
Again, so fucking what?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Don't think it was a phrase used by Marx nearly 200 years ago!
You are exactly the kind of apolitical fool who might just be worth throwing out as decoy for the first round of the toffs' artillery.
So clever, that you make a stupid remark and back it up with an even stupider defence of your stupidity.
This is a many-posted thread all about class and how it is defined and there is barely a marxist term in it. There rarely is on urban threads because we are the kind of political types who actually think about things instead of clowning around on the sidelines trying to disrupt genuine, quality discussion by screaming "look at me" whilst nicking cheesypoof's star-jump schtick for borrowed impact.
You haven't changed in the ten years you've been on here. Why do you bother? Or do you genuinely not realise how pathetically vacuous empty-headed wrecking types are. You're not clever enough to know how stupid you are.
TruXta
tired
I'm sure if you keep repeating that to yourself it'll eventually sound true. Doesn't stop you from being a twat.
CyberRose
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Yes it was very simplistic and too many exceptions. It's just we get so bogged down on U75 with definitions about class that we forget to define "class" itself in our haste to decide who's middle class and who's working class.
I think what determines your role in society is the opportunities you have and your ability to influence others. Opportunities is dependent on wealth (either your own or your parents) and influence depends on a certain level of wealth (because wealth = power). That is what my 'definition' above was trying to say. Surely Marx when he came up with his definitions of class was also trying to say this? The relationship to the means of production was a convenient example at the time - those who owned production generated wealth and therefore power (influence). These were middle class. Those who did not own the means of production had no wealth (and therefore no opportunities or influence). These were working class. Today, the relationship to the means of production is not a good example to see who is society has access to opportunities or influence because there are too many exceptions.
I would say those who are deprived of (enough) wealth and therefore do not have the opportunities people desire are "working class" (or bottom of society)
Those who have enough wealth to have the opportunities they desire (eg a comfortable life) but at the same time do not have influence are "middle class" (people who have been to university would fall under this category as a degree opens up opportunities etc)
Those who have enough wealth to be able to influence society are the elite of society, people on this forum would traditionally call them middle class but I think they have taken over the role of what was previously handled by the aristocracy and therefore this group I would call "upper class"
As for what I'd describe you in what you say above, you're background is working class and eventually as you and your wife generated more wealth to have a comfortable life (if that's how you'd describe it now?) and when you've done your degree and the opportunities that will open up I'd say that moves you into the middle class category (of my definition)
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Working class is just better?
is it though? really?
I'd rather be a lay about toff than middle class TBF. But you know. I'd rather be a middle class proffessional than a working class drone. In terms of more influence over the work I get to do. Given that working isn't optional.
is it though? really?
I'd rather be a lay about toff than middle class TBF. But you know. I'd rather be a middle class proffessional than a working class drone. In terms of more influence over the work I get to do. Given that working isn't optional.
Look, nothing you or anybody else says can alter the fact that being working class actually makes you superior to everybody else.
TruXta
tired
Well if you put it that way! Will repeated beatings to the head convince you otherwise?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Don't think it was a phrase used by Marx nearly 200 years ago!
don't think marx was using any phrases 200 years ago, he wasn't fucking born until 1818
What sort of ridiculous question is that? it's a discussion board. We come to discuss things. I was discussing the fact that you were talking bollocks. It doesn't really add up to a huge deal, but does it have to? If you care to engage with any point I have made, great! If not, even better.
Yes.
with 10k plus debt (soon to be 30k+), just to get you started...
CyberRose
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You can apply for graduate jobs?
Altho I take your point about specialist degrees being more suited to what I said, however, there are still (iirc) around 60% of graduate jobs that are considered "generalist"
I got a degree when I was thirty. All it meant was that I'd joined the growing ranks of those who hold worthless qualifications and toil in pointless jobs in a part of the world where life is gradually losing all it's meaning.
But at least your life does mean a little more if you're working class.
Reasoning.
CyberRose
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I was rounding up to the nearest 100
oh, you're trolling...
No I'm not. I fucking mean it. Everybody defers to the working class in one way or another whether they admit it or not.
To be born working class means that you've won in the lottery of life.
Same boat, more or less. I'll console myself with this inate superiority then.
Though I'd rather have a better job. Or big house and estate...
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