Labour leadership

[J Ed]

..

 

[treelover]

DP

 

[treelover]

While history does not exactly repeat itself, I was struck by the similarity of the language used by George Osborne and that of the reformers who introduced the 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act. They both express a strange concern for the poor, as both worry that wage support, provided by the Speenhamland system and tax credits, encourages idleness. The Benthamite politicians of that period believed that people’s preference for pleasure would encourage them to idleness, as they knew the parish would always make up their wages to prevent them from going hungry. Not so very different from today’s welfare reformers who see state benefits acting as a similar disincentive to work.

Both Lord Grey’s reformers and George Osborne and his colleagues believe that only by treating the poor harshly will they have an incentive to work. In 1834 it was the workhouse, whereas today it is the cruel benefits system, with its many sanctions, which – like the workhouse – is intended to discourage all but the most desperate from applying for help. What they also have in common is a need to dress up a cruel policy designed primarily to provide relief for the rate-/tax-payer as a policy of compassion towards the poor. Do these politicians in some Freudian sense need to lie to themselves to avoid having to admit the reality of their policies?
Derrick Joad
Leeds

Excellent letter in the G, likening all this to 1834 Poor Laws.

 

[youngian]

BBC News reporting that Burnham, Cooper and Kendall, will back Harriet position on abstaining from tonights Welfare vote, though some(a few) LP MP will vote against


so, the LP is voting for a form of state eugenics, cuts in disability benefits, a cap down to 13,000 for a single person.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...m-not-vote-against-unsupportable-welfare-bill

Burnham really is a shape shifter, turner

Who is that going to impress? Those three candidates can certainly triangulate: fail to capture swing voters because they don't look anything like a PM while traditional supporters turn their back at the same time. And they show their lack of gravitas in the way they deal with Corbyn; the more personal attacks they make the more Corbyn looks like the elder statesman who debates the issues instead reciprocating the mud slinging. Negative politics might work in real life but not in Labour Party elections.

In an attempt to invent hinterlands Yvette Cooper informed us that she once drove a tractor. This is the most interesting fact I've heard about Yvette Cooper and might even get her elected if she was a US Mid-West candidate for Congress.

 

[treelover]

Pasokification awaits?

 

[stethoscope]

I was reading this earlier about the vote, and I think I was both chuckling and contemplating banging my head against something at the same time. What a load of shit. Just fuck 'em.

 

[treelover]

Iain Duncan Smith, the work and pensions secretary, has dismissed claims that the welfare bill will push more children into poverty. He started his speech at the opening of the debate a few minutes ago, and was challenged by Jeremy Corbyn, the leftwing Labour leadership candidate who asked him if he had considered the impact the bill would have on child poverty. Duncan Smith said he had, but that he thought the measures in the bill intended to focus attention on “life chances” would be a better way of tackling child poverty

Corbyn on the attack already and the debate has just opened.

btw, I wonder how many LP MP's are actually in the chamber?

 

[treelover]

That this House, whilst affirming its belief that there should be controls on and reforms to the overall costs of social security, that reporting obligations on full employment, apprenticeships and troubled families are welcome, and that a benefits cap and loans for mortgage interest support are necessary changes to the welfare system, declines to give a Second Reading to the Welfare Reform and Work Bill because the Bill will prevent the Government from continuing to pursue an ambition to reduce child poverty in both absolute and relative terms, it effectively repeals the Child Poverty Act 2010 which provides important measures and accountability of government policy in relation to child poverty, and it includes a proposal for the work-related activity component of employment and support allowance which is an unfair approach to people who are sick and disabled.

That wasn't mentioned in the media and LP are backing it.

FFS, even the DUP are voting against the Bill, and the LD's, what are Labour for?

 

[DotCommunist]

I was reading this earlier about the vote, and I think I was both chuckling and contemplating banging my head against something at the same time. What a load of shit. Just fuck 'em.

Lest we forget, this is the Harriet Harman who charged her husbands access to wanking fodder at a hotel to the taxpayer. Principles of a snake and the morals of...I dunno, whats a really amoral thing that just desires power at all costs.

 

[butchersapron]

That wasn't mentioned in the media and LP are backing it.

FFS, even the DUP are voting against the Bill, and the LD's, what are Labour for?

Yes it was. And yes, they are supporting the amendment that they tabled.

 

[butchersapron]

Lest we forget, this is the Harriet Harman who charged her husbands access to wanking fodder at a hotel to the taxpayer. Principles of a snake and the morals of...I dunno, whats a really amoral thing that just desires power at all costs.

That was jaqui smith.

Keep saying it and they'll sue you.

 

[stethoscope]

Harman vs backbench Labour MPs who plan to vote against vs three of the leadership candidates oh wait Burnham's a liar vs Kendall all out Tory vs backstabbers to get Corbyn out before he's even in vs… *breathes in*

What a load of tosspots.

 

[DotCommunist]

That was jaqui smith.

bollocks, I always get labour people confused. A long with a great many other things...

 

[friendofdorothy]

Only just discovered I have a vote through my union.

I'm not particulary interested in party politics (not since Blair ignored 2 million people and went to war anyway) Haven't read anything about the candidates or seen them on tv. I heard a lack lustre speach from Corbyn at the Anti Austerity rally and have his a flyer. I know nothing of the other candiates, other than theres 3 women and 3 blokes and Corbyn is the most left wing of the lot - is that right? gawd help us.

Would anyone care to say anything about them to help me in my choice?

all cunts except corbyn who seems vaugely alright but hasn't got a cat made of ice's chance in hell. Might as well vote for him I suppose.

Well I'm already underwhelmed by him so thats not as helpful as I hoped for.

snip>
In an attempt to invent hinterlands Yvette Cooper informed us that she once drove a tractor. This is the most interesting fact I've heard about Yvette Cooper and might even get her elected if she was a US Mid-West candidate for Congress.

I now have an image of her as Debbie from the Archers.

Has nobody got anything to say about the other (5?) candidates at all? or useful links?
perhaps a three word summary of any of them? I don't even know their names yet.

 

[YouSir]

Well I'm already underwhelmed by him so thats not as helpful as I hoped for.


I now have an image of her as Debbie from the Archers.

Has nobody got anything to say about the other (5?) candidates at all? or useful links?
perhaps a three word summary of any of them? I don't even know their names yet.

'They're all cunts'. Seriously, there's very little else to be said about them. They were presumably aiming to join the Tory party and missed.

 

[8115]

Is Harman on some kind of kamikaze mission to finally take out the Labour party for good? Or maybe she's using reverse psychology to make sure that the Labour party take a serious swerve to the left.

I just don't understand how the party who set up the NHS can struggle at the moment.

 

[8115]

Triple post, soz.

 

[8115]

Triple post.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Is Harman on some kind of kamikaze mission to finally take out the Labour party for good? Or maybe she's using reverse psychology to make sure that the Labour party take a serious swerve to the left.

I just don't understand how the party who set up the NHS can struggle at the moment.

sounds like she trying to turn it into the conservative party. Perhaps she is trying to reposition it to the right of the Torys.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Lest we forget, this is the Harriet Harman who charged her husbands access to wanking fodder at a hotel to the taxpayer. Principles of a snake and the morals of...I dunno, whats a really amoral thing that just desires power at all costs.

"Morals of a Blairite", then.

 

[DotCommunist]

Keep saying it and they'll sue you.

well, not me I aint got nothing to be sued for unless you count old socks

Well I'm already underwhelmed by him so thats not as helpful as I hoped for.


I now have an image of her as Debbie from the Archers.

Has nobody got anything to say about the other (5?) candidates at all? or useful links?
perhaps a three word summary of any of them? I don't even know their names yet.

yvette cooper
Liz Kendal
Andy Burnham
Jeremy Corbyn

If you want to subject yourself to a rundown of what they stand for go take a look at this weeks 'Sunday Politics' on BBC Iplayer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b061svpx

basically the other three are incredibly right wing and Corbyn looks like he wonders what the suffering fuck he's doing there and speaks words you expect to hear from labour politicians if they were real. Check out both Kendall and Burnham trying to link migrants and benefits. Shower of shit. Vote Jez. He won't win but its the only conscionable choice

 

[YouSir]

Triple post, soz.

Is Harman on some kind of kamikaze mission to finally take out the Labour party for good? Or maybe she's using reverse psychology to make sure that the Labour party take a serious swerve to the left.

I just don't understand how the party who set up the NHS can struggle at the moment.

Keep saying it, maybe someone from the Labour Party will finally get the message.

 

[treelover]

Triple post.

Something wrong with posting at the moment

 

[treelover]

Apparently Labour have just issued a whip for tonights vote.

 

[stethoscope]

Lol.

(If it wasn't all so depressing re. welfare).

 

[butchersapron]

Apparently Labour have just issued a whip for tonights vote.

The one they issued a few days ago and that there's been a massive debate about?

 

[8115]

Apparently Labour have just issued a whip for tonights vote.

What, a whip, to vote with the Tories on "welfare". I think they actually mean, a whipround for the headstone.

 

[stethoscope]

I think they actually mean, a whipround for the headstone.

Is it still in a South London lock-up, might be use for it yet.

 

[youngian]

Apparently Labour have just issued a whip for tonights vote.

That'll include the three Labour candidates who even a political anorak like me has no idea after listening to them what their plans are for public spending. Agree with Corbyn or not he's presented a credible pitch in plain English on the deficit and welfare spending.

 

[8115]

Dp.