Labour leadership

[DexterTCN]

Anyone done this?

Owen Jones retweeted
Jon Stone ‏@joncstone 9m9 minutes ago
Liz Kendall tells Jewish Chronicle hustings that a “responsible opposition” would not vote to recognise Palestine, as Labour did in 2014

 

[friendofdorothy]

Thanks for the link DotCommunist. There was grumbles in my household just listening to their opening speeches. Couldn't bear to watch the whole debate. What I've learned so far:

Yvette Cooper - ernest, dull and wants to 'reach out'
Liz kendal - doesn't want Labour to be an unelectable party of Protest - she wants a really well paid job
Andy Burnham - doesn't want to speak in sound bites - but did, when he wasn't speaking in cliches

arrgh, arrggh, arrggghhh! gawd save us! and they were younger than me, or perhaps that is another sign of getting old when politicians look like youths.

That'll include the three Labour candidates who even a political anorak like me has no idea after listening to them what their plans are for public spending. Agree with Corbyn or not he's presented a credible pitch in plain English on the deficit and welfare spending.

Corbyn was the only one who didn't sound like he had been to some blairite on-message finishing school. He sounded human.

all cunts except corbyn who seems vaugely alright but hasn't got a cat made of ice's chance in hell. Might as well vote for him I suppose.

Has he really got no chance?

 

[stethoscope]

Has he really got no chance?

You know there's a plan being hatched that even if he does, he'll probably get ousted?

 

[DotCommunist]

yeah the labour right would murder him before christmas.

they were younger than me

they are all, save corbyn (who must have 25 or more on me), about ten years north of me and I fucking despise them all. All in thrall to the idea that you can't win an election from the left. The sooner this shit car hits a brick wall and gets sennered the better. How can you out-cunt the tories on benefits and immigration and austerity. You can't, stop trying. Bunch of mugs. They should all die in a fire except corbyn who should just go back to being the constituency worker he is and look after the affairs of the people who voted him in to do so.

 

[nino_savatte]

You know there's a plan being hatched that even if he does, he'll probably get ousted?

The legendary internal democracy of the Labour Party.

 

[DotCommunist]

You know there's a plan being hatched that even if he does, he'll probably get ousted?

I read that story and shook my head- lets have no illusions of what the labour party is. A kickback european wide against fiscal austerity is just 'summer of madness'

absolute wankers. Lube, thats all labour is and has ever been, fucking lube

You know during cable street the wankers held a rally elsewhere a long way away from moselyites and had to be persuaded to support it post hoc


they never change, the guardian reading fabian shits. They lost scotland and I pray to god they lose england and wales too

 

[stethoscope]

Decent speech by John McDonnell just now during the debate (FWIW).

 

[nino_savatte]

Followed by the truly dire Marcus Fysh, who's reading his speech from what looks like an exercise book.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Anyone done this?

Owen Jones retweeted
Jon Stone ‏@joncstone 9m9 minutes ago
Liz Kendall tells Jewish Chronicle hustings that a “responsible opposition” would not vote to recognise Palestine, as Labour did in 2014

She says the way to peace is through a two state solution, but she feels uncomfortable about recognising that one of those two states even exists?

Here it is in full:

Notice she says a lot about anti-semitism without at any point explaining why recognising Palestine would be an anti-semitic thing to do. She doesn't even mention Palestine in fact, it's all about Israel. This all confirms my suspicions that Kendall is a particularly dangerous kind of idiot.

 

[DexterTCN]

In Scotland...we call them the red tories

 

[William of Walworth]

SpookyFrank : She has the smallest chance of winning the Lab leadership though, thank fuck.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Andy Burnham says “every school in the country” should teach how "British values" shaped Israel in order to "re-educate a generation”.

Err, what?

Andy Burnham says Israel has "a long tradition of supporting minorities and civil rights” and that boycotts would be wrong

Are we talking about the same Israel?

https://news.vice.com/article/if-yo...abusing-child-prisoners?utm_source=vicenewsfb

 

[youngian]

Not only does Red Ed Miliband hate Britain but is he also an anti-semite, if I understand Liz Kendall correctly.

 

[weltweit]

.. Are we talking about the same Israel?

Just watched part of a program about Israel, am tempted to say the wrong thing which might get me branded as an anti semite! But seriously some of the people in the program, just hateful really.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Just watched part of a program about Israel, am tempted to say the wrong thing which might get me branded as an anti semite! But seriously some of the people in the program, just hateful really.

Remember that the state of Israel and Jewish people in general are two very different things. Criticism of the actions of the former does not amount to persecution of the latter. Only those who defend Israeli atrocities would have you believe otherwise. And Liz Kendall seems to be one of them.

 

[weltweit]

Remember that the state of Israel and Jewish people in general are two very different things. Criticism of the actions of the former does not amount to persecution of the latter. Only those who defend Israeli atrocities would have you believe otherwise. And Liz Kendall seems to be one of them.

But the program was about Jewish people of Jerusalem, including the mayor, all of whom in the program believed in their god given right to build wherever they chose and hang the consequences for others.

 

[SpookyFrank]

But the program was about Jewish people of Jerusalem, including the mayor, all of whom in the program believed in their god given right to build wherever they chose and hang the consequences for others.

Do you think it was Jewishness that made them believe this, or the culture they live in? People can be made to believe wrong things if those in power have something to gain from it. How many British people have seriously warped ideas about immigration, or the welfare state? Do you think simly being British fucked their heads up, or do you think somebody planted those ideas in their heads on purpose?

And did they show interviews with every Jew in the city on your TV show? Or just a handful of them?

 

[weltweit]

Sure it was a small number of people, not necessarily representative, they also interviewed some Palestinians, the only thing the two small non representative groups had in common was that they pretty much hated each other! The key thing I got from the program was immense gratitude that I didn't live or grow up there!

 

[SpookyFrank]

But there's other threads for all this stuff.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The key thing I got from the program was immense gratitude that I didn't live or grow up there!

La haine attire la haine.

 

[weltweit]

Back to the labour leadership, I am worried for Labour, these 4 don't stand for me out as future prime ministers and that implies that labour might not beat the tories next time which worries me because it could be very bad for people on lower incomes or on benefits if the tories continue to do more of the same.

 

[YouSir]

Back to the labour leadership, I am worried for Labour, these 4 don't stand for me out as future prime ministers and that implies that labour might not beat the tories next time which worries me because it could be very bad for people on lower incomes or on benefits if the tories continue to do more of the same.

To be honest asides from long shot Corbyn I'd be just about as worried by the prospect of this incarnation of Labour winning as the Tories doing it.

If anyone can point out what the difference would be I'm all ears.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Back to the labour leadership, I am worried for Labour, these 4 don't stand for me out as future prime ministers and that implies that labour might not beat the tories next time which worries me because it could be very bad for people on lower incomes or on benefits if the tories continue to do more of the same.

yes, but with a labour backing, instead of a labour opposition. I don't ever remember the opposition forgetting its role to challenge, block and alter govt proposal. It's rolling over and playing dead.

 

[ViolentPanda]

yes, but with a labour backing, instead of a labour opposition. I don't ever remember the opposition forgetting its role to challenge, block and alter govt proposal. It's rolling over and playing dead.

There have always been instances of the opposition voting with the govt, but it's usually been related to "national security", or been a genuinely cross-bench subject. This farrago where both main parties attempt to outbid each other on socially-destructive neoliberal policies is a creation of the Blair years, and arguably started pretty much as soon as he became Labour leader in '94. His "third way" was merely an avoidance of the second way (leftism) by copying much of the first way (rightism) but pretending it was something shiny and new.

 

[weltweit]

Labour’s capitulation on welfare reveals the vacuum in its soul
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tulation-welfare-vacuum-leadership?CMP=twt_gu

The leadership’s failure to oppose benefit cuts is a misreading of the electoral runes and a damaging revelation that the party has nothing positive to say

 

[treelover]

Blimey, Gould, a blast from the past.

 

[treelover]

What confidence can anyone, let alone the party’s supporters, have in politicians who have so little stomach for the fight? Are we to be governed entirely by opinion polls? Are even the most fundamental of Labour values to be abandoned if “triangulation” does not support them? These failings could just about be tolerated by a party of the right, since their goal is simply the maintenance of power, but they are entirely destructive of any pretension from a party of the left that professes to have an analysis and a programme that will produce a change for the better.

But this has been the M.O of N/L since its inception, even when Gould was around.

 

[Buckaroo]

But this has been the M.O of N/L since its inception, even when Gould was around.

Are you confusing him with Philip Gould?

 

[treelover]

"Politicians should be signposts not weathervanes."

Tony Benn

 

[treelover]

Are you confusing him with Philip Gould?

No, wasn't Bryan Gould part of the genesis of NL?