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Labour leadership

SpookyFrank said:
We need to look beyond traditional left wing ideas like not kicking old ladies to death in the street and welcome the old-lady-kickers-to-death of this nation into a new political consensus based on a shared vision of fairness, decency and kicking old ladies to death in the street. The radical left would have you believe that fairness and arbitrary violence against the elderly are fundamentally incompatible ideas, but that's just because they're silly and childish and they don't understand the need for compromise.
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now and again you produce a post of utter, sublime genius. i salute you.
 
AC14 said:
Apart from being angry that the Tories are in power, disgusted with their moves, and utterly committed to opportunities for working class people - on top of so much else.
As I said. Easy riposte without substance.
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The whole thing is Question Time Tory talking point drivel. "we do far more justice to the principles of the left if we look beyond our conventional ideas" i.e. if we abandon our principles. Workfare because stuff! Forced academisation! More wars please! Get in the fucking sea.

Not a single thing there would Cameron not support.
 
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FridgeMagnet said:
The whole thing is Question Time Tory talking point drivel. "we do far more justice to the principles of the left if we look beyond our conventional ideas" i.e. if we abandon our principles. Workfare because stuff! Forced academisation! More wars please! Get in the fucking sea.
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I'll put you down as a Green Party voter.
 
AC14 said:
Apart from being angry that the Tories are in power, disgusted with their moves, and utterly committed to opportunities for working class people - on top of so much else.
As I said. Easy riposte without substance.
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See what you're doing there is mixing up cheering for a team with having significant political differences. Given that her solution to having the Tories in power is "be more like the Tories, including their meaningless rhetoric about working class aspiration" (protip: everyone aspires to something, saying you're pro-aspiration is like saying you're pro-world peace) she's fairly clearly the former, not the latter. Go Red Team!

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Rob Ray said:
See what you're doing there is mixing cheering for a team with having significant political differences. Given that her solution to having the Tories in power is "be more like the Tories, including their meaningless rhetoric about working class aspiration" (protip: everyone aspires to something, saying you're pro-aspiration is like saying you're pro-world peace) she's fairly clearly the former, not the latter. Go Red Team!

cc912-temporary-tattoos-red-black-go-team-000.ashx
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No, she's saying working class people have aspirations, including to not be working class. Labour shouldn't fetishise the working class and embrace those.
 
Favelado said:
She will never ever say the two words "working" and "class" together as no-one in the Labour leadership dares utter them anymore. It's the opposite of fetishising them. They've become unmentionable.
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yes. but if they stopped being unmentionable working class and became lovely middle class then i suppose the labour leadership attitude would change.
 
Favelado said:
She will never ever say the two words "working" and "class" together as no-one in the Labour leadership dares utter them anymore. It's the opposite of fetishising them. They've become unmentionable.
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This is untrue. I know we disagree, but honestly, this is untrue.
 
AC14 said:
No, she's saying working class people have aspirations, including to not be working class. Labour shouldn't fetishise the working class and embrace those.
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You're not listening. Everyone has aspirations, you don't need to say you're in favour of this, it's implied unless otherwise stated (eg. were I to actively say "I want to strip the rich of their wealth"). The only thing that matters is what you actually advocate doing about it.

In this case, what's being proposed is to take away support for the poor through welfare cuts and attacks on working rights, actively disabling the ability of millions to aspire to much more than a square meal, in order to support the aspirations of rich people looking to keep them down. This is a Tory viewpoint.
 
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Favelado said:
Is it just me then? I can't remember seeing a prominent Labour politician say "working class" on TV recently. It's always the more palatable "working people" and it's not an accident.
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I'm not prominent, but I use it. However, 'working people' means the same. Why are you bothered?
 
Seems to me Corbyn has compromised by just staying up to date. He has not abandond the basics and leant to the right looking for some holy grail of winning. Can basic principals be watered down?
Maybe I have it wrong, but I can remember Blair marching with ban the bomb. spit. I may be old fashioned but I think that sort of stance still matters.
 
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