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Labour leadership

killer b said:
A friend tells me that the name (and in particular the logo) is referencing star trek rather than (although I suppose as well as) the french resistance. It only gets worse.
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I just tweeted that. What a bunch of idiot fantasists. It shows just how incompetent and possibly dangerous they are. I bet Dan Hodges had something to do with it.
 
Hodges and chums hard at work:

lacombe-lucien1.jpg
 
Looks like things are looking up (not really)

Independent on Sunday / Sunday Mirror November Political Poll « ComRes

Latest @TheSundayMirror / Independent on Sunday poll: Con 42% (NC) Lab 27% (-2) LD 7% (NC) UKIP 15% (+2)
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Tories plus the kippers on 57%...

I mean it's not like there's been any obvious targets for Labour to go for: Steel closures, working tax credit fuckery, NHS crisis, but no it's all dumb as fuck infighting, and the party is lead by people who are massively out of their depth.

Just fucking great, eh?
 
TheHoodedClaw said:
Looks like things are looking up (not really)

Independent on Sunday / Sunday Mirror November Political Poll « ComRes



Tories plus the kippers on 57%...

I mean it's not like there's been any obvious targets for Labour to go for: Steel closures, working tax credit fuckery, NHS crisis, but no it's all dumb as fuck infighting, and the party is lead by people who are massively out of their depth.

Just fucking great, eh?
Click to expand...
tbh, considering the breadth and depth of the concerted political/media campaign to undermine Corbyn, I'm surprised they've hung on to their core vote.
As for some of the issues you've mentioned, I suspect the hard reality is that few people outside of the towns affected give much of a hoot about Steel, the tax credit story will remain hypothetically complex until folk see their pay slips.
 
Also worth bearing in mind that this is just ComRes and their new(ish) methodology had Con>Lab of 12-14% before Corbyn was leader.

e2a : As Anthony Wells (YG) says...
The reason the Tory lead is bigger than in recent polls giving them a lead of only six or seven points is down to ComRes having a different methodology, not a sudden fracturing of support.

If you are interested in the specifics of this, the reason for the gap is probably ComRes’s new turnout model. Rather than weighting people based on how likely they claim they are to vote, ComRes estimate people’s likelihood to vote based on demographic factors like age and class. In practice, it means weighting down young people and working class people who are more likely to support Labour.

At the moment polling companies’ methods are in a state of flux. Some companies like ComRes have made substantial changes to address the errors of the general election; other companies have made only modest interim changes while they await the results of the polling review. Even those who have made changes say they may well make further changes once the review reports. It means we have some quite varied results from different companies at the moment. Once the review is done and dusted and everyone has made all the changes they are going to make it may be that results are once again quite similar to each other… or it may be that we won’t be able to tell who has taken the correct approach until we see the results of the 2020 general election.
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brogdale said:
tbh, considering the breadth and depth of the concerted political/media campaign to undermine Corbyn, I'm surprised they've hung on to their core vote.
As for some of the issues you've mentioned, I suspect the hard reality is that few people outside of the towns affected give much of a hoot about Steel, the tax credit story will remain hypothetically complex until folk see their pay slips.
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*sigh* I know, I know.

It's so fucking frustrating that the main opposition party somehow managed to elect a total fucking clodhopper as leader - a man who seems decent enough, to be sure - but seems to have a certain intellectual rigidity and unwillingness to engage. The leader, and the key shadow cab members, should be out there front and centre, all day every day. New Labour, for all that entailed, were really good at that, and Major's government was sane and competent compared to this one.
 
TheHoodedClaw said:
*sigh* I know, I know.

It's so fucking frustrating that the main opposition party somehow managed to elect a total fucking clodhopper as leader - a man who seems decent enough, to be sure - but seems to have a certain intellectual rigidity and unwillingness to engage. The leader, and the key shadow cab members, should be out there front and centre, all day every day. New Labour, for all that entailed, were really good at that, and Major's government was sane and competent compared to this one.
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This is what does my head in the most about the criticism of Corbyn, its utter wrongness.

Corbyn is by far and away the most willing to engage Labour leader of recent times; hence the appointments to the Shadow Cabinet and the decentralizing of policy decisions, which stands in stark contrast with what Blair and Brown used to do. As for "intellectual rigidity", that is a bizarre statement when he has also been criticized for various reversals of policy (such as the fiscal charter). The point about him and the Shadow Cabinet being out there all the time would be a good one normally, but almost all of the Press have demonstrated that they have no interest in giving him anything like fair coverage - just take a look at how the Daily Politics covered his first speech as leader to the Labour Party Conference (where the sole talking head invited on was someone who hates him), or the coverage of his speech today.
 
agricola said:
This is what does my head in the most about the criticism of Corbyn, its utter wrongness.

Corbyn is by far and away the most willing to engage Labour leader of recent times; hence the appointments to the Shadow Cabinet and the decentralizing of policy decisions, which stands in stark contrast with what Blair and Brown used to do. As for "intellectual rigidity", that is a bizarre statement when he has also been criticized for various reversals of policy (such as the fiscal charter). The point about him and the Shadow Cabinet being out there all the time would be a good one normally, but almost all of the Press have demonstrated that they have no interest in giving him anything like fair coverage - just take a look at how the Daily Politics covered his first speech as leader to the Labour Party Conference (where the sole talking head invited on was someone who hates him), or the coverage of his speech today.
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Blair, Brown, Campbell etc honed a party machine that fought back against the agenda of the very same media that Corbyn faces. It's the same cunts that own it now that owned it then after all. For all New Labour's faults, they knew how to win. Labour today needs that kind of cynicism and savagery. Being the Chair of the STWC or whatever is not really the training that is needed. Consensus? WTAF. No, attack.

Now I know a lot on here don't rate party politics at all for good reasons, and Labour and the Tories are both neo-lib parties yadda yadda yadda come the revolution up against the wall, but I think it takes a Tory government to remind people what a spectacularly terrible mindless cunt government looks like. And they are going to win in 2020. Good fucking job.

Sorry, just venting.
 
TheHoodedClaw said:
Blair, Brown, Campbell etc honed a party machine that fought back against the agenda of the very same media that Corbyn faces. It's the same cunts that own it now that owned it then after all. For all New Labour's faults, they knew how to win. Labour today needs that kind of cynicism and savagery. Being the Chair of the STWC or whatever is not really the training that is needed. Consensus? WTAF. No, attack.

Now I know a lot on here don't rate party politics at all for good reasons, and Labour and the Tories are both neo-lib parties yadda yadda yadda come the revolution up against the wall, but I think it takes a Tory government to remind people what a spectacularly terrible mindless cunt government looks like. And they are going to win in 2020. Good fucking job.

Sorry, just venting.
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Fought back? They actively co-operated with it and covered up what we now know was corruption of public officials and other bad practice on a massive scale.
 
agricola said:
This is what does my head in the most about the criticism of Corbyn, its utter wrongness.

Corbyn is by far and away the most willing to engage Labour leader of recent times; hence the appointments to the Shadow Cabinet and the decentralizing of policy decisions, which stands in stark contrast with what Blair and Brown used to do. As for "intellectual rigidity", that is a bizarre statement when he has also been criticized for various reversals of policy (such as the fiscal charter). The point about him and the Shadow Cabinet being out there all the time would be a good one normally, but almost all of the Press have demonstrated that they have no interest in giving him anything like fair coverage - just take a look at how the Daily Politics covered his first speech as leader to the Labour Party Conference (where the sole talking head invited on was someone who hates him), or the coverage of his speech today.
Click to expand...


This week has shown that to be rhetoric unfortunately. The Ken Livingstone appointment, A Corbyn placeman inserted without telling any of the MP's with an interest in defense....The shot to kill u=turn, coz that was a u-turn not an out of context misrepresentation. McDonnell's Mi5 fiasco.....I agree he isn't getting a fair crack of the whip, though the absurdity of what they were throwing at him in weeks previous probably helped him, now the sniping is getting on target.
 
agricola said:
Fought back? They actively co-operated with it and covered up what we now know was corruption of public officials and other bad practice on a massive scale.
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Oh come on. Labour delivered a lot of their manifesto post 97. Minimum wage etc against the same press that Corbyn faces today. How'd they do that? Play the game better than the papers did. Fuck all point in being idealogically pure if there's no sniff of power, other than smug points down the revolutionary council.
 
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