Labour leadership

[frogwoman]

Try again. You're reading something, then reacting to it personally because of your own experiences. In other words you're personalising the subject because it chimes with your own experience.



Right, so I'm a conspiracy theorist akin with the worst scum in America because I've mentioned this?

no, i am saying that in PR terms, that is how you will look.

 

[Santino]

It's being a dick to defend yourself when someone insinuates that you're smearing someone, after you've explained (at their request) what you're talking about?
Wow, the world must have changed more last Friday than I thought!

No, it's being a dick to throw your weight around and respond aggressively in the way you are.

 

[frogwoman]

saying that being gay is something to encourage a rumour over is implying that homosexuality is bad.

If you wanted to attack someone politically you would not start a rumour that he helped old ladies with their shopping, was nice to dogs, that sort of thing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I understand you and greebo are angry VP, but this is coming across as pretty repellent tbh.

Right. I think I see.
I mention a possible difficulty for Chuka with some of his constituents.
Because neither Greebo nor I have much time for the man, this is being taken as smearing him.

Here's the thing. I don't give a fuck whether he fucks women, men, cats or dogs. I do give a fuck that even if he hasn't been a friend to the estate that I live on, that small-minded people might use the issue I mentioned to give him a hard time. Why? Because he's my MP and, dislike his treatment of my estate as I do, he's still a better prospect than some Tory, Lib-Dem or nu-nu-Labour twat that we might have ended up with.

 

[ViolentPanda]

saying that being gay is something to encourage a rumour over is implying that homosexuality is bad.

If you wanted to attack someone politically you would not start a rumour that he helped old ladies with their shopping, was nice to dogs, that sort of thing.

Who's encouraging a rumour?
I mean, if you're saying that I'm disingenuously spreading a rumour, please come out and say it plainly.

 

[Santino]

Who's encouraging a rumour?
I mean, if you're saying that I'm disingenuously spreading a rumour, please come out and say it plainly.

You're personalising something that isn't personal.
That's not usually a sensible move. It limits clarity.

 

[Greebo]

I understand you and greebo are angry VP, but this is coming across as pretty repellent tbh.

FWIW I've put frogwoman on ignore for a week and killer b on ignore for the foreseeable future. All of us are better fighting out own battles than each other.

Not only has Umunna failed to help or support this estate, he's insulted hthose who live here by implying that the campaign to save it was a nasty smear against him run by the Greens.

 

[killer b]

You imagined a difficulty for Umunna in order for you to post a rumour you've heard through your Labour Party mates.

 

[Greebo]

You're personalising something that isn't personal.
That's not usually a sensible move. It limits clarity.

And you never have, Santino? Buzz off, please.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Who's encouraging a rumour?
I mean, if you're saying that I'm disingenuously spreading a rumour, please come out and say it plainly.

I don't give a toss about his sexuality, but if he thinks image counts, (and he continues to behave as he has until now) I'll use every fucking thing I can lay my hands on and then some.

 

[Santino]

And you never have, Santino? Buzz off, please.

Not my words, sweetie.

 

[Greebo]

cynicaleconomy
We're not one person, and not even in the same room while online.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the posts are all still there, people can read.

I don't delete or edit my posts when someone takes exception to them.

My original post on page 17:
"T'other thing is that being "blessed" by Mandelson may have the effect of re-igniting the rumours about Chuka's sexuality that he's spent years trying to gainsay. Some of the local pentecostal churches can be a bit unforgiving."
There's no insinuation there, just the mention of rumours.
Rumours which, because you haven't heard them, obviously can't exist.

You're right though, people can read. it's whether they can be arsed to think about what they read, rather than just reacting, that seems to be in doubt.

E2A: My original post on page 18.

 

[DotCommunist]

Spreading rumours that a person is gay in order to damage them politically is doing exactly that.

theres people alive who remember when homosexuality would have killed his career stone dead but nowadays[question mark here-fucked keyboard]

edit, i've lost the thread of the thread, I thought w were discussing mandleson. Ignore me I'm too tired to follow a simple thread of discussion properly

 

[ViolentPanda]

You imagined a difficulty for Umunna in order for you to post a rumour you've heard through your Labour Party mates.

That may be how your mind works. it's not how mine does.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're personalising something that isn't personal.
That's not usually a sensible move. It limits clarity.

Which is why I was asking for clarity.

 

[frogwoman]

Well talking about how im lecturing you and if i love him so much i should go and live with him and that its all right to use what you can get your hands on kind of implies you dont object to it too much. Why post it on here? Why should people care where he puts his cock? And putting me on ignore? grow up. All ive done is say what my opinion is of such tactics, how it poisons the public discourse, how theres other stuff to get the bloke on, how bad it will look as a PR move, etc etc. These are all reasonable replies to give, its a discussion board. People make posts and others reply. Ive made some fairly stupid statements on here in the heat of the moment and been pulled up for it. Im shocked that you're having such a bad reaction when all ive done is disagree rather than say you're a cunt or a homophobe or any the shit that gets flung around on here on a daily basis.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Well talking about how im lecturing you and if i love him so much i should go and live with him and that its all right to use what you can get your hands on kind of implies you dont object to it too much. Why post it on here? Why should people care where he puts his cock? And putting me on ignore? grow up. All ive done is say what my opinion is of such tactics, how it poisons the public discourse, how theres other stuff to get the bloke on, how bad it will look as a PR move, etc etc. These are all reasonable replies to give, its a discussion board. People make posts and others reply. Ive made some fairly stupid statements on here in the heat of the moment and been pulled up for it. Im shocked that you're having such a bad reaction when all ive done is disagree rather than say you're a cunt or a homophobe or any the shit that gets flung around on here on a daily basis.

Quoted because it is a good post.

 

[ViolentPanda]

no, i am saying that in PR terms, that is how you will look.

Like a "birther"? Like a demented racist fishing around for any reason to sow doubt about a politician?
I think I could have constructed something a bit more effective than that, if I wanted to bring Chucky down.

 

[xenon]

Yep. Labour has been shitting on its' core vote since around 1987, when Pillock & Co first got the idea to not only move centre-ward, but to cultivate the urban middle classes, too.

I stand to be corrected but in urban areas, that has still largely worked for them this time though. ALl those red islands in sea of blue. As variously noted and seems to make sense to me, they lost in practicle terms because previous Labour voters from 97, switched to Libdem in 2010. 2015, Lthat body of voters save SNP, went Green UKIP, Tory TUSC or abstained. They're the seats they lost, many urban MC types still voted Labour this time.

 

[oryx]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...iend-as-he-sets-out-stall-for-leadership.html

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well talking about how im lecturing you and if i love him so much i should go and live with him and that its all right to use what you can get your hands on kind of implies you dont object to it too much. Why post it on here?

Anger, perhaps?

Why should people care where he puts his cock?

They shouldn't.
And yet some of them, for whatever misguided reasons, do. Whether that's down to religion or ideology or just plain prejudice, they do.

And putting me on ignore? grow up. All ive done is say what my opinion is of such tactics, how it poisons the public discourse, how theres other stuff to get the bloke on, how bad it will look as a PR move, etc etc.

On my original post, the sort of people with the motivation to use rumours about Chuck aren't affected by concerns about PR. They're part of the media. They can tilt a story any way they choose, and they do.

 

[xenon]

There was an interview with David Milliband in NY on the news, he said Ed and Gordon before him had given up on aspiration required for a progressive political project. I don't understand what he said either!

Dave Miliband was one of those Blairite clones. A grey business wanker. If Labour members still think they voted for the wrong brother, fuck 'em all. I'm no great fan of Ed Milliband but craven beyond belief these whiners are.

 

[frogwoman]

Anger isnt an excuse. And 'Yeah I wont use it but some un-named right wingers' will isnt either.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I stand to be corrected but in urban areas, that has still largely worked for them this time though. ALl those red islands in sea of blue.

I dunno - I think that they're still pretty dependent in many urban areas on their core vote - those of us living on council estates or the arse end of various boroughs - coming through for them as well as their more recent middle class friends. I think part of the reason they've also held on to some urban areas is that the working class and middle class demographic is multicultural, which gives the right (whether Tory or 'Kipper) a harder time getting a foot in the door.

As variously noted and seems to make sense to me, they lost in practicle terms because previous Labour voters from 97, switched to Libdem in 2010. 2015, Lthat body of voters save SNP, went Green UKIP, Tory TUSC or abstained. They're the seats they lost, many urban MC types still voted Labour this time.

What you've written above also clearly indicates why they should stop taking their core w/c for granted - they can't depend on floaters, and if they do, they alienate their core vote through ignoring them.

 

[xenon]

I don't agree with VP's speculation but all he was doing was trying to second guess how enermies of a new Labour leader might try and leverage anything no matter how low, they can against him. Homophobes vote to. Allbeit doesn't make sense to me. Would seem to be slightly counter productive in any case because aren't there a few "out" Tories anyway?

Anyway leaving that aspect, just saying how I saw the exchange in what, page 19 now.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Anger isnt an excuse. And 'Yeah I wont use it but some un-named right wingers' will isnt either.

It's not meant to be an excuse.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't agree with VP's speculation but all he was doing was trying to second guess how enermies of a new Labour leader might try and leverage anything no matter how low, they can against him.

We only need look at the subtext of some of the shit written and broadcast about Miliband to know that they'll go pretty low.

Homophobes vote to. Allbeit doesn't make sense to me. Would seem to be slightly counter productive in any case because aren't there a few "out" Tories anyway?

Sure. A few. Doesn't stop the sneering in the media, though, whether you're an MP for the party of government, or for the opposition.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Dave Miliband was one of those Blairite clones. A grey business wanker. If Labour members still think they voted for the wrong brother, fuck 'em all. I'm no great fan of Ed Milliband but craven beyond belief these whiners are.

As I said on another thread on here, David Miliband as leader of the Labour Party 2010-2015 would have been 5 years of nu-Blairism, and if elected the outcome would be exactly the same as what the Tories will do, just served with a teaspoon of sugar to help the shit sandwich go down.
Labour and the Tories sing substantially from the same hymn-sheet on TTIP; for privatising and/or "Academising" schools; for the marketisation of tertiary education; the same hymn-sheet for bringing the private sector into the NHS and the Civil Service...the list goes on.

 

[Casually Red]

I appreciate that, but how would Mandelson's endorsement make anyone think Umunna was gay?

He endorsed Blair , and a lot of people think he's a "double adaptor " of sorts . Ambiguous kind of chap . Definitely would have let dubya have a bash .


Mind you he didn't endorse Brown .


That wasn't a pun btw .