Labour leadership

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Chuka Umunna, through what some claim was opportunism (to give himself a better chance as leader in 2020), and others claim was cowardice (proximity of media to details about his private life that he didn't want revealed), shot himself in the foot by withdrawing. What he didn't think through was that his action has also marked his card "do not trust" with some of the party faithful.

The most disgusting thing about Umunna for me is that he was bullied out of standing, but has since chosen to put more effort into slagging off some of his own colleagues, and masses of the Labour base, than the scumpress responsible.

Time and again in recent weeks, the Labour hierarchy have stood square onside with the Torygraph, Scum etc in their analysis.

 

[YouSir]

Hilarious.

I've been on the Labour left for 35 years and yet here's some wally patronising me and telling me I'm a Blairite simply because I dare to suggest that for the sake of the elderly, the poor and the vulnerable, even a watered down Labour government is always better than a tory government.

Those who say the tory and Labour Parties are exactly the same are deluding themselves.

So what did/would your Labour do on the housing situation in London, for example?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The most disgusting thing about Umunna for me is that he was bullied out of standing, but has since chosen to put more effort into slagging off some of his own colleagues, and masses of the Labour base, than the scumpress responsible.

Time and again in recent weeks, the Labour hierarchy have stood square onside with the Torygraph, Scum etc in their analysis.

Chuka implies that he was bullied out of standing, as do media outlets that support him.
However, he has a long history of political opportunism, so the claims (by those close to him, as well as enemies) that he found a reason not to run - in order to give him a clearer field and be untainted by what has turned out to be a cluster-fuck - are tenable, even though they're not (yet) provable.

 

[redsquirrel]

Christ, what ever made you think I was a Blairite!??

You utter bullshitter. On what issue do you agree with Benn. You supported a Lib-Lab alliance, you support the EU, you argued for NATO intervention in Libya. You might want to think that you're not a liberal but you're fucking deluded. You're basically Polly Tonybee's godson, arguing how dreadful neoliberalism is but actually fighting for it every step of the way.

Chuka Umunna would have stood the best chance of winning the next election for Labour but sadly that's no longer an option. None of the other candidates are exactly inspirational, but any one of them could be a potential PM.... although they may have to depend on other factors such the tories fucking up the economy or being in government at the start of another Global downturn, or of the electorate simply being sick of Cameron by then.

Yeah cause Chuka really following the Bennite path. Christ.

 

[kabbes]

I have to say the sight of anarchos and kabbes getting pissed and joining the £3 pound club has amused me no end. Not that I'm mocking, its just funny- you've had a drink, you've perhaps partaken of a hempen pipe. Fuck it, its only three quid lol

There's a point in the evening when principles go out the window and three quid is good value to join in the fun and frolics. To say, "I was there"

 

[DotCommunist]

There's a point in the evening when principles go out the window and three quid is good value to join in the fun and frolics. To say, "I was there"

when the shit went down. In Grenada. No I'd have been tempted myself if it wasn't for my visceral loathing of the labour party. Its not that they won't deliver full communism, thats never been their bag and we'd have to dig some pretty big lime pits to deal with those who objected to FC. Its just...FABIAN CUNTS

 

[DotCommunist]

had you partaken of the healing herb that night as well? Cos its clearly a factor in getting weary leftos to vote for the spry corbyn

 

[oryx]

Those who say the tory and Labour Parties are exactly the same are deluding themselves.

I do agree with that to a large extent - e.g. under the last Labour government there was the minimum wage, there was Sure Start and Decent Homes, and since then we've had the bedroom tax and savage cuts due to the supposed 'need' for austerity which I believe is ideologically driven, i.e. throttling the public sector while pumping up the private.

However as someone on the left I saw the last Labour government as too right-wing and authoritarian e.g. the PFI and ID cards.

But what a lot of people are feeling is that the current thinking of the Labour Party is too centrist and they are desperately trying to look like the party of 'hard-working families' and to cosy up to business interests.

The unexpected populist move to the left is to be welcomed. Hard-won fights around working conditions and equality of opportunity are being eroded (quite frighteningly so) and to be a credible alternative for the 99%, the Labour Party needs to move left.

 

[agricola]

Corbyn's a wild card, and look at the momentum he's built up in the last couple of months while barely putting a foot wrong, and managing somehow to turn all the mud that's being thrown at him to his advantage. If he can repeat that feat for Labour with the leadership, then there's all to play for at the next election. He's even got supporters coming back to Labour from UKIP, which would be another way of winning seats from the tories rather than chasing tory votes by adopting tory-lite policies.

The quality of mud being thrown at him is awful, though - the best meme that the other three and their media chums can come up with is that he is advocating policies which are impossible to achieve, despite many of them (student grants, nationalized rail and power generation, affordable public housing, a strengthened NHS etc) having existed within the past twenty-five years, costing much less than the "privatized" versions do now, and they are all policies which all score well with the public now (and nearly every time they have been asked their opinion down the years).

 

[DotCommunist]

The quality of mud being thrown at him is awful, though - the best meme that the other three and their media chums can come up with is that he is advocating policies which are impossible to achieve, despite many of them (student grants, nationalized rail and power generation, affordable public housing, a strengthened NHS etc) having existed within the past twenty-five years, costing much less than the "privatized" versions do now, and they are all policies which all score well with the public now (and nearly every time they have been asked their opinion down the years).

burnham has broken ranks and also said he'd renationalise rail. Because that doesn't at all look desperate. Christ the lib dems were touting that one when they were actually a thing. Cheap, cheap politicking. It'd be nice to get a train without having to sacrifice 90% of my disposable income for that month yeah. Burnhams just grasping at straws tho

 

[agricola]

burnham has broken ranks and also said he'd renationalise rail. Because that doesn't at all look desperate. Christ the lib dems were touting that one when they were actually a thing. Cheap, cheap politicking. It'd be nice to get a train without having to sacrifice 90% of my disposable income for that month yeah. Burnhams just grasping at straws tho

What he actually said was that he would allow the public sector to bid for franchises when they came up for renewal, which is an even worse proposal than just keeping the status quo.

 

[murphy1970]

Probably posting this in the wrong thread, but the one question that interests me regarding Corbyn's successful march to the LP leadership is how this will impact on the left north of the border.
From my own experiences on Twitter he has sparked quite a reaction from SNP loyalists. They have went out of their way to denounce him as a Red Tory, on the sole basis that he is a unionist. I remain convinced of the case for the break up of the British state, but it is inarguable that Corbyn is miles to the left of the SNP and this is the cause of the fear in their ranks.
What do other posters predict for the future of the LP north of Hadrian's wall?
I think they're doomed myself, for two reasons - 1 the election of Kezdale which is itself a reflection of the soul less Blairism of party in Scotland and 2 LP's permanent stain for their horrendous decision to share a platform/cause with Tories in Better Together
As a member of the SSP I hope that the Left Project can make inroads in the forthcoming Scottish election whilst retaining a realistic sense of what can be achieved

 

[DotCommunist]

I think labour have had their day in scotland. Regardless of the indy question. Scotlands had a gutful. And if the labour right eviscerate corbyn just because, then they will see the same here. You don't have to be a non-unionist to despise the parties who claim to represent it.

 

[DotCommunist]

What he actually said was that he would allow the public sector to bid for franchises when they came up for renewal, which is an even worse proposal than just keeping the status quo.

mealy mouthed maggotry from the dealer in second hand austin allegros

 

[murphy1970]

I still find myself shell shocked at how quickly and completely Labour have vanished north of the border. For years they could safely put up anyone and be assured of a thumping victory, a process rapidly being replicated by the SNP, who will suffer the same fate in a few years (hopefully).
As someone introduced into politics via Benn's arguments for Democracy/Socialism in my early teens and a member of AWL in the early 90s, I am a natural Corbyn supporter and find it perverse that he stands a very good shot at LP leadership.
As the Chinese proverb says - or as I paraphrase it - we live in interesting times. A resurgent left in LP in England, a left completely divided over EU, Scotland swept away by fake left nationalist fervour, feck knows what will happen next.

 

[Celyn]

dp

 

[Celyn]

...
From my own experiences on Twitter he has sparked quite a reaction from SNP loyalists. They have went out of their way to denounce him as a Red Tory, on the sole basis that he is a unionist...

I've seen a lot of tweets along the lines of "Corbyn good, because will oppose the Tories, which the current Labour lot aren't doing" - that sort of thing. I've seen tweets saying he doesn't really get Scotland and his fondness for the Union is a pain, but I haven't seen anyone call him a red Tory. Then again, I'm probably not using Twitter in a particularly clever way. I think most would welcome Corbyn as Labour leader, as it's really important to get some opposition to the current 'kill the poor' plans.

 

[nino_savatte]

What I find so irritating about the Blairites is their complete refusal of their Party's history. Worse, they've completely ignored their recent electoral history: Brown and Miliband failed to ignite voters' imaginations and lost the elections of 2010 and 2015 respectively. But they'll complain Corbyn is unelectable (when he's won larger majorities than his challengers in his Islington North constituency). Even worse, Gordon Brown, who was a failure at the ballot box, will be speaking today about the "dangers" of a Corbyn-led Labour Party. This from the man who said he wanted "British jobs for British workers".

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I really don't think cooper is aware of how she comes across. That or she genuinely believes the electorate are all total morons who will swallow anything. Of Corbyn's economic policy she said:

"I don't think the answer is what Jeremy has proposed, which is basically printing money that we haven't got to build things."

I feel like I'm three years old but I know what the grown up is telling me is absolute bollocks.

 

[campanula]

had you partaken of the healing herb that night as well? Cos its clearly a factor in getting weary leftos to vote for the spry corbyn

I admit it - I certainly had...as I do most nights (and days)...but I would like to think this was not the sole reason for stumping up the cash (although, out of all the endless 38degree and Change e.mails requesting donations, I have only actually dipped in my pocket to 'save our bees'

 

[ska invita]

basically printing money that we haven't got to build things."

I think he has said something to that effect - why should banks do QE, when we could do targeted QE on infrastructure projects

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I think he has said something to that effect - why should banks do QE, when we could do targeted QE on infrastructure projects

I think he did, yes but he's mentioned borrowing at low interest as well, which is what a government should do at times of poor output to invest in infrastructure etc. Which one he'll do is unclear but what does cooper offer? Just more austerity and support of all the Tory cuts.

 

[ska invita]

I think he did, yes but he's mentioned borrowing at low interest as well, which is what a government should do at times of poor output to invest in infrastructure etc. Which one he'll do is unclear but what does cooper offer? Just more austerity and support of all the Tory cuts.

Yeah but to be fair to Cooper, it is something he is proposing.
How much this kind of print and build economics can work is an interesting subject, one for another thread. If your whole economy depends on it then disaster looms, but I expect in little targeted ways it would be fine. It would be interesting to look at some comparative examples around the world.

 

[Knotted]

Liz Kendall:
"...because people thought that we had a message that was yes for the weak and the vulnerable and those who are suffering but ordinary people too."

Interesting pivot.

 

[agricola]

How much this kind of print and build economics can work is an interesting subject, one for another thread. If your whole economy depends on it then disaster looms, but I expect in little targeted ways it would be fine. It would be interesting to look at some comparative examples around the world.

No need to go around the world, just look at our history since 1997 - government borrowing was always cheaper than using PFI, even when interest rates were not hovering around zero.

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[DotCommunist]

the weak

the untermensch. Even when she's trying to sound caring she uses the wrong words

 

[Knotted]

Gordon Brown at the minute criticising Corbyn for having policies. Seriously.

 

[tommers]

I really don't think cooper is aware of how she comes across. That or she genuinely believes the electorate are all total morons who will swallow anything. Of Corbyn's economic policy she said:

"I don't think the answer is what Jeremy has proposed, which is basically printing money that we haven't got to build things."

I feel like I'm three years old but I know what the grown up is telling me is absolute bollocks.

As opposed to printing money we don't have to give to bankers?

 

[treelover]

How is all this being reported in Europe or the U.S?

J Ed, do you know who wrote that leader, was it Beth Rigby?