ska invita
back on the other side
Its a different playing field now than 1997
How different we shall see
Labour: Can they ever win another General Election?
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
How different we shall see
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
The second article shows the foibles of our political system, the same article points out that Theresa May was only 287 votes from victoryClearly
" Having begun the campaign 20 points behind in the polls, he has won an astonishing 40% of the votes. That is the largest increase in the share of the vote by a Labour leader since Clement Attlee in 1945. "
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Corbyn delivers Labour biggest vote share since Blair's 2001 landslide
Jeremy Corbyn has delivered Labour’s best share of the vote since Tony Blair’s 2001 landslide.www.standard.co.uk
..
Jeremy Corbyn was 2,227 votes away from becoming Prime Minister
Winning seven Tory knife-edge seats could have put Labour leader in Downing Streetwww.independent.co.uk
etc
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Yes, because the Labour Party can head rightwards and still not beat the Tories at their own game if the Tories are established in power and without something external (scandal, war) to bring them down.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I voted 'need to do x' with 'x' being throw Starmer in the fucking sea.
This is a really odd question to even ask at the minute. However flawed the polls may be and however far off the next election is there really is nothing else remotely objective to go on. Looking at the polls from the last year Labour are hovering around the same sort of level as the Tories, so there's nothing to suggest they can't win. Of course they can win, and they may not even have to do anything special to win. I think Starmer is awful, I think Labour is awful but that doesn't mean he/they will lose.
All I am saying is give Keith a chance. (Sorry
)
All I am saying is give Keith a chance. (Sorry
)
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Sets them up for a crisis though. The SNP would want another indyref, which if they won it would leave the rUK government without a majority. And if there was then a general election Labour would go into it as the party that had just misplaced the top third of the country.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
That is what not that long ago people were going on about how the Tories would never be in power again (or at least not the natural party of government).That's cos they're always in government!
I think a Labour government will happen sooner or later.
Neither would any party, if by get in you mean an outright majority (except perhaps the SNP in Scotland).
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Life long supporter but no, could win in coalition with the SNP but that would come at the cost of a referendum and once Scotland goes thats probably it. Then the only chance would be to try to get proper PR in. before the UK disappears Then Labour could safely split into into a socialist party and a social democratic party, and ,maybe the Tories would split to a one nation Christian Democrat and right wing English nationalist party. this would have the benefit of allowing more space for the greens and seeing the final death of the fucking Liberal Democrats as they spilt in to the centralist bits of Labour and Torys (personally satisfactory).
This will never happen though.
This will never happen though.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yes of course they can. The FPTP system is very powerful in keeping the two main parties in that position and the Tory support is hardly overwhelming. I'm not sure it will happen anytime soon though, they'll need another defeat or two before they even start to wonder if managerial centrism isn't the answer.
Although Boris Johnson is more than capable of doing something stupid enough to fuck things up for the Tories in the shorter term.
Although Boris Johnson is more than capable of doing something stupid enough to fuck things up for the Tories in the shorter term.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
No, I mean what I said. The most votes.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
PR would make any Labour or Tory only government unlikely, it makes the yellow scum kingmakers in coalition governments
And the Tories have taken the most votes for the last four Westminster elections
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
The SNP wouldn't want an Indyref, what they would want is the power to call an Indyref, currently they can't do that without the permission of Westminster which kind of stuffs them at the moment. The price of SNP support would be for that power to be devolved to Holyrood so they can call an Indyref 2 (or Indyref N+) whenever they felt like it. Sooner or later they would get a Yes Vote
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
What's confusing?
In the last four elections the Conservative party has got the most votes - though never a majority of votes.
PR would make it practically impossible for any party to get a majority of votes so the most likely outcome would be a series of coalition governments, alternating between Tory-led and Labour-led
Puddy_Tat
happy mew year
dunno
there is a fairly large chunk of the labour party that thinks any election defeat is due to not being right wing enough
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Whoever gets the most votes wins. Whoever gets second most votes is second place and so on. Quite easy. The seats are then allocated accordingly. The Party who gets most votes forms the Government. Very easy, you see?
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yes for sure. I don't think it's necessarily (purely in terms of winning elections) that the alternative has to be left wing as such though. It just needs to offer something that isn't just 'we'll be the same but in a marginally more competent manner.' I don't know exactly what that would be but I could see them adopting some more populist ideas for example.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
1) That method is not really PR (or at least not as it is usual understood)
2) Contrary to your initial post that would result in Tory governments
Puddy_Tat
happy mew year
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Lately it would result in tory Governments. However when Labour has a decent manifesto and party it wouldnt.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
By what method are seats allocated? Because if you do it proportionately, how do you ensure the winning party gets more than 50% of seats?
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
I love the idea of a deal between Labour and the smaller parties: tactical voting to secure a Labour majority in exchange for PR in the Lab manifesto. Sadly I think SNP leading Scotland to independence and endless Tory majorities in the shit rump UK electoral map are more likely, especially with the likely rise in gerrymandering and pork barrel politics...
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Change the word Labout to Tory and its just the same. It is what the Tories do also.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Lets forget the word proportional. You seem to feign that you dont know what I am meaning. Re-read what I posted a couple of posts ago.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Er which is it?
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
I’m not feigning. I’m puzzled which voting system that isn’t FPTP or AV would achieve what you suggest and would be in any way preferable to FPTP or AV. In other words, why are you bothering to change the system?
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
What I am saying is, and it is objective, is that if there are a hundred people in the country. then the party that had the highest number of votes is in power and forms a Government. The 2nd place is the opposition.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
That’s what happens now. Except the bit about 100 people, which seems a bit of a non sequitur.
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