Labour: Can they ever win another General Election?
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
Yeah, but it'll be less different to the Tories than it ever has been.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I think restoring the whip to Corbyn should do it.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Eventually. I can’t see any other party being the second of Westminster’s two party system.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Indeed.
mauvais
on reddit or something
I'm hesistant to talk about this, because it will look like I think that it's worth continuing to pour hope into Labour, and I really don't.
But is there really certainty on this, and why? It seems like Corbynism was a kind of not-so-near miss. Sure, it occurred by an accident and it's unlikely to be permitted again any time soon, at least in that way, but there are points to the contrary too; the overall structure that is incontrovertibly a parliamentary party managed to gain significant energy if only in the membership.
Big change is coming down the line. This country is probably looking at a very different future, whether that's dissolution of the union or widespread economic impoverishment or whatever else. That's kind of what I meant in my first post - who can say what the reaction to it will be? It seems unlikely to me that a change-of-colour centrist party is going to be able to thrive within those parameters.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
It doesn't though, does it?
That's point.
Two, just two, clear victories from opposition since WWII.
mauvais
on reddit or something
By this measure the Tories get what, three?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yep. Yes they will. It doesn't need to be that many either.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
ska invita
back on the other side
Hard to tell the scale of damage on the horizon (the Torys have spent a lot more than i expected them too), but we could be in a vaguely 1945 situation by the next election. Materially its potentially a golden opportunity for Labour, and you'd expect the Tories to be quite battered and bruised by then.
From what I've read about 1945, Labour were basically given the green light by the establishment to take power, for a range of political reasons. Still a lot of unknowns before then as to what a Starmer manifesto might look like, and what connections he has.
moochedit
I'm not feeding seagulls
I agree it may take a while. How many elections exactly i don't know. But eventually enough people will get pissed off with the tories.
I don't see any other party with a realistic chance. The voting system favours the 2 main parties (in england anyway) and the lib dems and ukip have both collapsed and there are no other parties with large vote shares so i don't see any "rainbow coalitions" happenning any time soon. It's a Guardian fantasy.
ska invita
back on the other side
What have you seen about PR? Is it just people wishing we had it?
Clegg caving in on PR and instead having a referendum on AV was an enormously missed opportunity. Thats the only path I can imagine to a PR referendum, a LibDem coalition in which they insist on it.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yep, the only party with the likely heft to get Labour clearly over the line is the SNP. We all know what their price would be.
I think I see a flaw in that plan somewhere...
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I've heard this same question ever since...1983. Usually posited by either Tories who (secretly, to themselves) want a one party state or by liberals who see the question as an excuse for arguing Labour should be more like the Tories.
Yes of course they'll win another election, in time. And yes, probably when they're almost indistinguishable from the Tories.
Yes of course they'll win another election, in time. And yes, probably when they're almost indistinguishable from the Tories.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I think the chances of Labour winning the next election in 2024 are slim to none. Corbynism was clearly not a vote winner, I suspect Starmerism will be a tad less unpopular but not even remotely enough to swing the balance
Beyond that who knows? 10 years ago the LibDems (remember them) were a significant political force now look at them, who knows what the UK will be like in 2030.
I think the question the OP is really asking is whether or not the Labour Party will run on a platform sufficiently socialist to get even the diehard lefties on U75 cheering for it and win a GE within our lifetimes.
The answer to that is almost certainly a resounding No I'm afraid. That ship has sunk never mind sailed for a generation at least probably two in fact.
As for PR I am massively in favour of that but we will never get it whilst the party that most benefits from its absence has an unshakeable grip on power, that's one thing I really have a beef with Clegg about. He should have insisted and not settled on a referendum.
Beyond that who knows? 10 years ago the LibDems (remember them) were a significant political force now look at them, who knows what the UK will be like in 2030.
I think the question the OP is really asking is whether or not the Labour Party will run on a platform sufficiently socialist to get even the diehard lefties on U75 cheering for it and win a GE within our lifetimes.
The answer to that is almost certainly a resounding No I'm afraid. That ship has sunk never mind sailed for a generation at least probably two in fact.
As for PR I am massively in favour of that but we will never get it whilst the party that most benefits from its absence has an unshakeable grip on power, that's one thing I really have a beef with Clegg about. He should have insisted and not settled on a referendum.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
My point is more whether, actually, there's any point in them being more like Tories. It still won't win them elections.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Yes they can.
Similar things were said about the tories not that long ago. That they will never have a clear majority again, their members and voters are old and will decline etc. That was wrong then and writing the labour party off is equally wrong now.
Having said that I don't see them winning the next election. And when they do win it will be because people are desperate for change, but they will only offer more of the same.
Similar things were said about the tories not that long ago. That they will never have a clear majority again, their members and voters are old and will decline etc. That was wrong then and writing the labour party off is equally wrong now.
Having said that I don't see them winning the next election. And when they do win it will be because people are desperate for change, but they will only offer more of the same.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Blair seemed to do nicely off it.
I'm not sure I understand your 'any point' bit. If electoral success is the be all and end all then yes there is a point.
To people like me, and probably you, Labour doing their best Tory impersonation is pointless as far as policy goes.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Is electoral success down to them shifting right? or is it down to a period of Tory rule running it's course and a general need for the "reset" of a different ruling party for a bit?
That's what I'm wondering.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Some rough back of the envelope calculations suggest that it's possible for Tories to form a government (as in 2015) with the votes of less than 1 in 4 of the electorate.
Though Blair's final win was achieved with even less TBF.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
or A) but only if B) is in place?
ska invita
back on the other side
Clearly
" Having begun the campaign 20 points behind in the polls, he has won an astonishing 40% of the votes. That is the largest increase in the share of the vote by a Labour leader since Clement Attlee in 1945. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corbyn delivers Labour biggest vote share since Blair's 2001 landslide
Jeremy Corbyn has delivered Labour’s best share of the vote since Tony Blair’s 2001 landslide.
www.standard.co.uk
Jeremy Corbyn was 2,227 votes away from becoming Prime Minister
Winning seven Tory knife-edge seats could have put Labour leader in Downing Street
www.independent.co.uk
etc
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