Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[cantsin]

Were there any Palestine obsessed members that weren't Anti-Semitic loons?

I'd say yes, definitely - you can be completely over focused on Palestine, and not be AS.

 

[cantsin]

I wonder rummo

Yes

none the wiser squire

 

[19force8]

I brought up my own age. I often do. These are all my own teeth.

And you have the receipts to prove it.

 

[tim]

Well, in various anarchist groups, Friends of the Earth, peace groups, anti GM, anti poll tax, eco groups, as well as trade unions I've not encountered antisemitism. The only racist views I can recollect openly espoused at meetings have been anti American and anti Kurdish. Gulf War 1 I was too much involved with being a brand new parent, Gulf War 2 quite active, but not with Stop the War. Maybe it's the company I keep.

At the last STWC meeting I went to Jews were accused of financing the Norman Conquest of 1066.

 

[toblerone3]

Sigh

Why do you "sigh" you silly bean.

 

[steveseagull]

Just imagine being sat round a dinner table with Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper and a dead antisemite



Keith's Stazi will be onto this surely.

 

[Dogsauce]

Bigotry is bad but ageism is fine?

Not the first time being older has been used to denigrate or as some kind of 'handicap' on this thread.

Isn‘t it the opposite, in saying someone older is more knowledgeable/experienced? Therefore they ought to know better and pointless trying to change their view?

 

[rummo]

Just imagine being sat round a dinner table with Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper and a dead antisemite



Keith's Stazi will be onto this surely.

And the Board of Deputies.

Remember their attacks on Boris Johnson when he took time out from his election campaign to attend the unveiling of her statue?

Surely you must remember?

The headlines in all the newspapers.

'Tory Leader Attends Unveiling Of Statue Of Vehement Anti Semite.'

The incessant questions.

The poring over of everything he'd every written. Every event he's ever attended. Everyone he's ever met.

It was relentless.

 

[danny la rouge]

And the Board of Deputies.

Remember their attacks on Boris Johnson when he took time out from his election campaign to attend the unveiling of her statue?

Surely you must remember?

The headlines in all the newspapers.

'Tory Leader Attends Unveiling Of Statue Of Vehement Anti Semite.'

The incessant questions.

The poring over of everything he'd every written. Every event he's ever attended. Everyone he's ever met.

It was relentless.

You’re relentless. You’re obsessed.

 

[frogwoman]

Definitely no antisemitism here.

 

[frogwoman]

puts thread back on ignore

 

[danny la rouge]

Definitely no antisemitism here.

Not that I’ve noticed. And I’ve been on this thread decades longer than everyone’s Dad.

 

[frogwoman]

Not that I’ve noticed. And I’ve been on this thread decades longer than everyone’s Dad.

Passionately posting on this thread for the last 37 years

 

[bimble]

frogwoman is much wiser than me.

 

[tim]

Not that I’ve noticed. And I’ve been on this thread decades longer than everyone’s Dad.

Yes, we don't get those rum customers you find in other places.

 

[frogwoman]

At the last STWC meeting I went to Jews were accused of financing the Norman Conquest of 1066.

Thats quite an accusation. Are you sure you don't mean zionists or the state of Israel? Definitely a thing during 1066.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

At the last STWC meeting I went to Jews were accused of financing the Norman Conquest of 1066.

Well, as I said in a response to danny la rouge I never got involved in the Stop the Norman Conquest campaigning

 

[Treacle Toes]

You’re relentless. You’re obsessed.

I disagree, it's a fair point. As the BoD were demanding members of the Labour party were investigated/disciplined and the LP leadership sign up to their pledges Tory MPs were openly celebrating the erection of the statue to Astor as if her anti-semitism didn't matter. I don't think I saw an article by the JC or a single tweet from the BoD at the time. The double standards are obvious and that's a good example.

 

[co-op]

FWIW I'm absolutely certain that Miriam Mirwich, a relatively high profile female Jewish Labour Party officer, recieves daily antisemitic abuse of the most lurid type.

How can you be so certain? It's possible but I doubt it. I'm sure there'll be something but this idea that there's some kind of massive tide of AS, that Jewish labour party members have to experience, I just don't see evidence for it. I'm not on twitter though so maybe I miss it but twitter is just a crank-magnifier, it can let a few thousand nutters run riot but they're nothing numerically are they?

Has she published the kind of thing she's been getting? Is there any evidence at all of "daily" or (your words) "of the most lurid type"? Her reaction to Solley's email makes her look more like a fanatical denouncer than a victim.

 

[killer b]

How can you be so certain? It's possible but I doubt it. I'm sure there'll be something but this idea that there's some kind of massive tide of AS, that Jewish labour party members have to experience, I just don't see evidence for it. I'm not on twitter though so maybe I miss it but twitter is just a crank-magnifier, it can let a few thousand nutters run riot but they're nothing numerically are they?

Has she published the kind of thing she's been getting? Is there any evidence at all of "daily" or (your words) "of the most lurid type"? Her reaction to Solley's email makes her look more like a fanatical denouncer than a victim.

she does sometimes share the stuff people send her, yeah.

 

[co-op]

At the last STWC meeting I went to Jews were accused of financing the Norman Conquest of 1066.

The whole origin of the blood libel myth (at least in its early medieval version) is closely linked to the murder of William of Norwich and the subsequent massacre of Jews in Norwich. This was all tied into a Norman vs Saxon (or at any rate "local") narrative. The Norwich Jewish community had mostly arrived in the century after the Norman Conquest. Still this is the first time I've heard the "they financed the Conquest" story.

 

[killer b]

How can you be so certain? It's possible but I doubt it. I'm sure there'll be something but this idea that there's some kind of massive tide of AS, that Jewish labour party members have to experience, I just don't see evidence for it. I'm not on twitter though so maybe I miss it but twitter is just a crank-magnifier, it can let a few thousand nutters run riot but they're nothing numerically are they?

Has she published the kind of thing she's been getting? Is there any evidence at all of "daily" or (your words) "of the most lurid type"? Her reaction to Solley's email makes her look more like a fanatical denouncer than a victim.

I really find this kind of stuff pretty depressing. Is your first reaction when any woman complains of receiving daily abuse to demand evidence? I guess it probably isn't. What's the difference?

 

[frogwoman]

'Hysterical'

 

[frogwoman]

As I said. Every Jewish person on the left has experienced this, yes even those like Naomi Wimborne Idrissi and so on. I've fucking experienced it, I could provide a long list but given the likelihood most people won't be believed or just be told 'Yeah but it was actually against the state of Israel' or now apparently 'the middle class'. challenging it becomes a pretty pointless endeavour so they don't bother, and many end being repelled by organised left wing politics altogether.

 

[Pickman's model]

Passionately posting on this thread for the last 37 years

and the pms of support to prove it

 

[frogwoman]

The only reason I'm looking on this thread is probably PMS tbh

 

[rummo]

'Is your first reaction when any woman complains of receiving daily abuse to demand evidence?'

Speaking for myself, no.

Until I learn how she reacted to the email from Stephen Solley, and how she had characterised it as anti Semitic abuse, then I would start to think that maybe she's not being entirely genuine and would be wary of taking anything she said at face value without some credible corroborative evidence.

I think that would be a fair, balanced and reasonable position to take.

 

[killer b]

I wasn't talking to you, fucko.

 

[brogdale]

Still this is the first time I've heard the "they financed the Conquest" story.

Bit of a digression for the thread...but...a while ago when I was researching my family history in the Sussex/Kent border area I came across this interesting history explaining the dark, antisemitic story behind the naming of Jury's Gap near Rye.

I think this sort of line about the conquest derives from the historical fact that William was regarded as relatively benevolent towards Jews, and many French Jews sought 'asylum' from persecution in Normandy. William did also accept a post-conquest immigration of Norman Jews to England, many who were themselves keen to escape Rouen where pre-crusade pogroms were increasingly common.

In early Norman England the Jewish population found a degree of protection and established communities in ports and trading centres in Sussex, Kent, London and Southampton, and then Cambridge, Oxford, Norwich and Winchester. The proximity of these communities to the protection of Norman castles, their financial links and use of French language suggests that Jews may well have been closely associated with the ruling Norman regime in the minds of the ruled.

The 2+ centuries following the conquest saw the English Jews suffer from the conflict of interest between the Royal courts increasingly reliant on tax revenues levied and the debtor Norman nobility who wanted rid of their creditors.

 

[frogwoman]

I would recommend EM Rose's The Murder of William of Norwich on this topic but, in the early years especially, it was entirely a project of church leaders and to some extent the aristocracy, and didn't really have much to do with peasant or working class resentment at all. Different to eg Poland in the 16th century