Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
while taking the low road
Labour & Anti-Semitism.
- Thread starter cantsin
- Start date
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
I’m not certain he had tea with this rabbi but he certainly seemed to be on really good terms with a lot of his local Jewish community in his constituency
Attachments
He went to that Jewdas seder and a lot of people got very upset because they are left wing Jews and absolutely not the sort of people a Labour leader should be hanging out with
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
not sure why you think having tea with martin mcguinness and gerry adams in the palace of westminster is so much worse than the heath government extracting gerry adams from long kesh and flying him and mcguinness (and ivor bell, sean macstiofain, seamus twomey and daithi o conaill) to london and chatting with them at 96 cheyne walk well before they were senior members of sinn fein
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Same as secular Jews, or any people of Jewish decent who find the idea of supporting a country that’s based around one faith and can’t help itself from breaking international laws and driving people from their homes on an ongoing basis for 70 years aborhent . If you criticise the state of Israel for the inhuman way they treat the Palestinians, then the label of antisemitism will be used to silence and demonise by the self appointed spokespeople for the entire Jewish community.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and that's your proper chutzpah
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
That's Rabbi Pinter, a Labour councillor in Hackney who met with Corbyn numerous times but wasn't exactly happy about antisemitism in the Labour party or the way Corbyn dealt with it. I'm not sure whether they had tea together though.
Looking at the broader picture of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, how is this suspension/whip withdrawal of Jeremy Corbyn going to play in the membership? We know how the right and the left are responding, but how about the centre who would usually prefer a Starmer or a Milliband as a leader? There will be a layer of stolid old Labour loyalists seeing their party under attack and having to jump through arbitrarily high hoops again who will now be more receptive to certain ideas. Let's not forget that a lot of these people are divs who never confronted anti-Semitism as it grew organically at local levels.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
It grew so organically and became so widespread that hardly anybody noticed it, apart from right wing elements. It was so widespread that the EHRC report concentrated really heavily on only two cases. In so many localities anti semitism was not confronted because it didn't exist. The report hasn't said which, if any, localities are/were/will be infected by anti semitism. I wonder why not. Maybe because they can't find any actual real evidence.
An attack here from Robert Jenrick:
Kind of exposes the fact that while Labour will use this as an excuse to wage factional war, the Tories don't care about that and will have a go at the problematic statements of those on the right of Labour such as Steve Reed
Kind of exposes the fact that while Labour will use this as an excuse to wage factional war, the Tories don't care about that and will have a go at the problematic statements of those on the right of Labour such as Steve Reed
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
That may well be true, but in Jenrick's case, there appears to be some personal beef that his shadow dared to call out his corrupt dealings with the pronographer, property developer. Reed did use the antisemitic trope of puppet master, but I'd imagine that Jenrick sees this as a possible means to deflect attention or dissuade further comment about his dodgy dealings.
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
I just enjoy the fact that the most generic Tory boy around is named Robert Generic. Reminds me of Basil Exposition from the Austin Powers films.
Well yeah, obviously Tories gonna Tory. But the weak spot is right there for them to prod
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Not AS related, but it was Steve Reed who pushed through Senis law (recording restraint in MH units) it’s Barbara Keeley, Harriet Harman, and Helen Hayes who are pushing for an end to long term institutionalisation.
what have the SCG done about any of this?
what have the SCG done about any of this?
Same way every time Labour went ahead in the polls under Corbyn there was an uptick in a-s, IRA etc stories, usually gleefully seized upon by the party right. Riding the tiger not such a wise choice
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh but it seems if you say that then you're as yourself
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The recent history of the Tory weaponisation of anti-semitism could occupy a discrete thread in itself, and maybe we should have embarked on such a thread to distinguish discussion from the really existing anti-semitism within the LP?
My recollection of anti-semitism becoming a more high-profile party political weapon goes back to the waning of the Blair/Brown regime and the (then) opposition's project to discredit the heir to Blair. David Miliband was regarded as potentially too pro-Palestinian and, then Blair's Foreign Secretary, wound up Hague's tory party over their European Parliamentary links to overtly anti-semitic groupings.
Obviously, the ground-work put in place to attack Miliband (D) as the wrong sort of Jew, was 'oven-ready' to be deployed against his 'anti-Israeli' brother.
I don't think it's too conspiraloony to mention the dedicated work of Eric Pickles in post as Cameron's Secretary of State for Communities and local Government (& Minister for Faith) who used his tenure to build through his CfI networking an increasingly effective campaign to deploy anti-semitism against the Miliband opposition.
Obviously the threat of Corbyn's left populism was met with weaponisation that built upon Pickles' work and combined with Mark Regev's tenure as UK ambassador (2016-2020) brought us to where we are today.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Seymour makes various good points on the topic in general in his latest bit. It's light on what anyone could really have done as an alternative, probably because he doesn't thin k there was really any on offer.
ska invita
back on the other side
There were suggestions way back in the mists of time that Corbyn shouldve taken people to court over accusations early on. Impossible to say if that wouldve worked....Id expect it would. Not the best look, but way better than this mess.
He's got a turn the other cheek nature about him though which doesnt work well when theres a pack of wolves out for your blood.
Well he's going to get his court case after all, and surely the Director of Prosecutions is going to be on the losing side.
The NEC letter tonight, signed by a majority who sit on it, is pretty juicy
Treacle Toes
Time
Time to wince...or not...
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Bit clumsy for a professional wordsmith.
Treacle Toes
Time
What do you disagree with?
Quite astonishing how SKS has backed himself into a corner here. NEC has reinstated JC's membership presumably based on legal advice but the whip has been withheld to placate Hodge and whoever else he feels he has to keep onside. Due process has not been followed and surely he knows it cannot stand in court. Remarkable.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
He's giving the (presumably unintentional) impression that, when racism gets noticed within the Labour party, half of them go "oh no, how terrible" and half of them go "no, no, this is fine".
Wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the impression a lot of bystanders already have, and precisely the impression that Corbyn got suspended for commenting on.
No, that's his intent
Treacle Toes
Time
Nah...for me he is making the point that an accusation of racism divides (rightly) the LP but when it comes to the Tory party they close ranks and rarely criticise/fight each other.
ska invita
back on the other side
Echoed in the Richard Seymour piece:
" Anti-Jewish violence has been structurally central to modern reaction, from Burke to the Dreyfus Affair, from segregationists to Nazis, from McCarthyism to Massive Resistance. It has been central to the programme of anticommunism and nationalism. Contrary to the widespread expectations, the appearance of Israel as a racist state hasn't fundamentally altered that equation.
The recent rise of paranoid nationalism has also produced a global rise in symbolic and physical violence against Jews. Physical attacks, desecrated graves, lone wolf terror. Marching fascists chanting "Jews will not replace us". Trump blaming antisemitic terror on Jews, coddling neo-Nazis. The Tories nudging and winking about "cultural marxism".
The Left doesn't have anything like the same structural relationship to antisemitism that the Right does. Where antisemitism flourishes on the Right, it strengthens the Right. Where it appears on the Left, it weakens the Left."
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