Kicking Off In Tottenham

[Spymaster]

well then you are a massive cunt and unbelievable cop cock sucking apologist

Idiot.

 

[krtek a houby]

Nobody's focusing on why the unfortunate man was carrying a replica

 

[elbows]

Im not in London, I have a potentially silly question. How are the pirate radio stations handling events?

 

[belboid]

maybe because merely carrying a gun doesn't mean you deserve top be killed

 

[ddraig]

and you've only just realised that?

no!
good to point it out now and again tho, specially for the new users

 

[Spymaster]

Nobody's focusing on why the unfortunate man was carrying a replica

It wasn't a replica. It was a loaded firearm, according to yesterdays police statement.

 

[Streathamite]

None of which of course, has any bearing on Duggan's shooting whatsoever.

As is always the case on these boards, there are plenty of people who WANT Duggan to have been wrongly shot. I don't. I hope that the officer that killed him acted correctly.

the fact that their first response was to tell a HUGE lie DOES have a bearing; it is indicative of the contempt they feel for the community they are supposed to serve. And I really do feel that police harassment of black (and white, and asian, and turkish) youth in Tottenham is the wider context which shouldn't be overlooked)
and what you 'hope for' is pretty irrelevant, tbh, same as what I 'hope for', and all these hypothetical people who 'want duggan to have been wrongly shot'; the core point is that there is a major problem with tottenham OB.

 

[Spymaster]

good to point it out now and again tho, specially for the new users

Any new users reading this thread will have got the measure of you from your last couple of mind-fuckingly ignorant posts!

 

[Spymaster]

the fact that their first response was to tell a HUGE lie DOES have a bearing;

Which lie?

 

[Streathamite]

No. But it makes judging them for it much more difficult.

Would they have to lie if they were not lied about?

Christ you talk crap. How the FUCK can you say that the police 'have to lie', and WHO is lying about the police? specific instances please, or stfu.

 

[Streathamite]

Which lie?

the one that duggan fired first, which they told the C4 reporter, bloke called Israel. first name eludes me, but he said it straight up.
The IPCC have already said that's untrue.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Officially Bernie. What may or may not have been said anonymously is just speculation. <snip>

'Just speculation' ...

If the police brief the media with a pack of self-serving lies whenever they kill someone, it doesn't matter as long as they do it anonymously?

Or do you have another implication in mind ... ?

Even if the media are doing it spontaneously with little or no police intervention, it matters. It's become such a clear pattern of behaviour that it substantially undermines public trust in the police force.

 

[ViolentPanda]

no they havent - it's a group of lawless thugs who need a good hiding - and, if they got one, would run home to their mums like little cry babies. They have false bravery in numbers. They might think differently when a few get badly hurt.

Yes, a good hiding always detered the rioters in Belfast and Derry.

You keyboard warriors, you really haven't got a fucking clue.

 

[butchersapron]

Not up with the last few hundred posts so apols if this has been posted already:

Theresa May: We can cut police budget without risking violent unrest

The home secretary, Theresa May, has dismissed fears that deep spending cuts could undermine the ability of the police to tackle possible civil unrest, and insisted the British did not respond to austerity by rioting on the streets.

May told the police superintendents' annual conference that it was "ridiculous" to suggest savings could not be made in policing, and went on to challenge the political orthodoxy that fewer officers would inevitably mean more crime. The home secretary pointed out that around the world significant falls in crime had happened alongside stable or even falling police numbers.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Even if they get the Paras to come shoot some people (a tactic which I seem to recall being not entirely successful when previously tried) ...

... I don't see how it's going to stop rioters from swarming where the police/army/vigilantes-in-super-hero-costumes are not.

Only way to successfully pull anything out of the hat would be manpower-intensive, and that'd be to cast a wide cordon and then progressively shrink it until you've concentrated your targets into a fairly small area. Works well if your cordon don't mind taking a knock, but coppers don't historically have a good record of standing up to opposition of equal numbers and similarly-armed, hence their love of biting off small chunks of opposition - easier to beat the shit out of them if your numbers overwhelm theirs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not up with the last few hundred posts so apols if this has been posted already:

Theresa May: We can cut police budget without risking violent unrest

As usual, she's looking at the headline "facts" her briefers have assembled for her, rather than the social situations of those examples in-the-round.

Just when you think government idiocy can't be exceeded, along comes an example to disabuse you...

 

[ViolentPanda]

I hope people understand that this " it's all criminal and has no social cause " line directly aids the Tories as they continue their austerity drive. If there is no social cause behind the riots then there is no reason to change course. There is only a need for a stronger state and more repression alongside the cuts.

A stronger yet smaller state, apparently.

Dismissing the economic causes of social unrest guarantees that this governments savage attacks on services and peoples life chances will continue unabaited and it guarantees that there will be more social unrest in the future

Absolutely.

 

[agricola]

Not up with the last few hundred posts so apols if this has been posted already:

Theresa May: We can cut police budget without risking violent unrest

May is not entirely wrong - what matters (as it does with most of the cuts tbh) is what they cut. Thus far they have gone with the traditional Home Office / ACPO policy of not cutting themselves / their favourite wheezes and schemes whilst going after the terms and conditions (and jobs) of officers and staff, and outsourcing business to places that senior figures can go and work at after retirement (best seen with the demise of the FSS)... but noone should pretend that there isnt a lot of waste spending in the police service, or that police officers cannot be deployed more intelligently than they have been.

 

[ViolentPanda]

When you see someone persistently conflating 'explain' with 'excuse' you know you're dealing with dishonest arguments.

Problem for people who've been supporting neo-liberal policies over the last three decades though is that they've got no other way to avoid the facts staring them in the face from their screens today.

"Can you give me a 'cognitive dissonance', brothers and sisters?"

 

[ViolentPanda]

There's always going to be folk who CAN be fooled all the time.

Unfortunately, there are also people who actively want to be "fooled" because it accords to their already-formed prejudices.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You haven't read what you quoted. You know it was his, how?

Look mate, everyone knows a British copper would never, ever use a throw-down.

 

[Greebo]

"Can you give me a 'cognitive dissonance', brothers and sisters?"

Absobleedinlutely!

 

[ViolentPanda]

That's because the people who live there are less law-abiding and more likely to be criminals.

Giles..

Actually, like the proverbial broken clock, even a worthless shitcunt like you is occasionally right.

Of course, you're right in spite of yourself, because while you're attempting to stigmatise with your banal comment, you've accidenatlly brought up a truth that's been evident to historians and social scientists for at least 150 years: That elements of the working class (I believe that your fellow-eugenicists of that era referred to them as "the residuum") are more likely to be criminal.

What those learned people know, that you don't, is that there were and are reasons for that criminality that have nothing to do with your rationalisations or your morality: Reasons of necessity.

Of course, you'll dismiss that as high-flown academic waffle, which is a shame, as there's such a rich seam of evidence from both sides of the fence that support it over your own pathetic mumblings.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Please show your working out.

Don't tax faux pas, they'll just start swearing at you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nobody's focusing on why the unfortunate man was carrying a replica

Well, we haven't actually established that he was carrying anything, yet, given that the gun was "found" by the same people who originally "returned fire" at a bloke who hadn't shot at them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It wasn't a replica. It was a loaded firearm, according to yesterdays police statement.

Was supposedly an activated replica.

You know, of the sort that anyone sensible doesn't pull the trigger off, and that get handed in by the dozen at every gun amnesty.

Not that I'm saying that the Met would have taken a leaf out of NYPD's book and taken a few "throw-downs" from the amnesty bin in case of a slight mishap like getting trigger-happy and killing someone who wasn't resisting arrest, no sirree....

 

[stuff_it]

no it was the gun fairy

He may have rented it for the claimed purpose, even if that were confirmed it doesn't mean he habitually carried a gun, and the delay since his fam's shooting implies he was using a lot more discretion than a proper 'gang thug' if that were in fact the truth.

 

[faux pas]

Don't tax faux pas, they'll just start swearing at you.

You hold the truth, nobody else. Just a little leftist clique on some little hardly known message forum know all the answers and can't possibly be wrong; and when challenged, start throwing insults about yet cry when a few are happily returned.

In short, your posts are wank, VP. Best to stop surrounding yourself with people who just think like you. It'll give you a false sense of security.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You hold the truth, nobody else. Just a little leftist clique on some little hardly known message forum know all the answers and can't possibly be wrong; and when challenged, start throwing insults about yet cry when a few are happily returned.

Cry, where did I cry, you fantasist? Jog on.

In short, your posts are wank, VP. Best to stop surrounding yourself with people who just think like you. It'll give you a false sense of security.

Project much, do you? [/quote]

 

[faux pas]

He may have rented it for the claimed purpose, even if that were confirmed it doesn't mean he habitually carried a gun, and the delay since his fam's shooting implies he was using a lot more discretion than a proper 'gang thug' if that were in fact the truth.

Yes. it's likely he was a responsible 'gang thug' - not a 'proper' one at all.