Kicking Off In Tottenham

[gunneradt]

hold on there! 1) no criminal record has come to light yet - all is known is he spent some time on remand, which is hardly unusual for a young black man from Tottenham. The rest is rumours and accusations. Anyone can give an 'account', incuding the met who are in the habit of smearing their victims (such as De Menezes) via anonymous brioefings to reporters - it's proof that matters, and that ain't there yet.
2) a firearm was found 'at the scene' - the IPCC have not yet confirmed it was his, the cabbie's (yes, this happens) or the other passenger, or even a police plant (equally a known phenomenon). It hasn't been established that it was on his person
3) his best mate was murdered earlier this year - there is every chance that, if he was carrying the gun, it was for protection. I know this area, and IMO that don't make him a criminal - just scared.
4) What is KNOWN is that he was the dad in a long-term stable family unit. The point being, that means stability etc.
in other words, you're jumping the gun a tad (sorry, no pun intended). Given that these police fuckups have a history of being followed by a lot of lies from the Met, and they've ALREADY been caught on one lie(duggan didn't fire at them), it's best to wait for the full IPCC report

did his gun have a licence then?

 

[Streathamite]

did his gun have a licence then?

Again - no-one knows the full story yet, but the LAST thing I would set store by is anything coming from the met

 

[gunneradt]

I

Again - no-one knows the full story yet, but the LAST thing I would set store by is anything coming from the met

I'll wager you an amount it didn't

 

[laptop]

did his gun have a licence then?

You haven't read what you quoted. You know it was his, how?

 

[gunneradt]

You haven't read what you quoted. You know it was his, how?

no it was the gun fairy

 

[Blagsta]

I am not blind at all but there isnt a reason why 99% of this has happened. I also hope that if you know some of the looters you'll help the police with their enquiries.

Yeah, shit just happens with no reason.

 

[TruXta]

Yeah, shit just happens with no reason.

Free will dontcha know?

 

[belboid]

beeb now reporting 'three or four' explosions at a diesel storage place in tottenham now

 

[revol68]

I see pk's faux radicalism for the Arab spring upheavels has worn off, understandable, much harder to hide your liberalism when the reality of social conflict is closer to home and instead of romanticised "others" to project your desires onto you are faced with the urban working class and disenfranchised in it's many, not always very palatable, forms.

Haven't had a chance to read much more than that but one can assume the beans are appalled at the shattering of the "peace" in their oh soo vibrant and "integrated" urban living spaces.

And seriously what the fuck is wrong with looting curry's, pc world, footlocker etc oh right cos so many of the lefts idea of politics is moralising idealist shite with a bit of lip service to some abstract, pure form of class struggle.

Good article here, oddly enough not from the BBC

 

[Pickman's model]

kneejerk 'shoot the scum' frothing, on the other hand, is even more mindless than the looters themselves, and will - if followed by the police - simply lead to more and worse trouble, becuase there is rather a lot of evidence to suggest violence only ever begets more violence.

yeh. but that's what you get from some posters like pk, who serially fail to engage brain before posting.

 

[Pickman's model]

it guarantees that there will be more social unrest in the future

tbh it doesn't matter a whit what the government does, there will be social unrest in the future. it's a bit like death and taxes, a fucking certainty.

 

[Giles]

Hopefully things will calm down now, and they can go back to offing each other on the weekends for stuff like venturing into the neighbouring postcode or looking at someone else in a funny way.

Giles..

 

[Giles]

This is logic-free, reason-free, Sub-Daily Mail drivel that is unsupported by the facts, and which ignores the underlying causes, and it NEVER gives an answer to one rather important point; riots ALWAYS start in depressed, poor, socially blighted inner city neighbourhoods, as this did in Tottenham and Brixton, rather than in genteel home counties towns>
I LIVE in sucha poor neighbourhood, and used to work in Tottenham. I know these kids, and - trust me - they learn to take care of themselves from an early age, and will fight back hard. For as long as I can remember, the police have harassed kids in this area.
a crackdown as moronic as your post - and the whole of London will be up.

That's because the people who live there are less law-abiding and more likely to be criminals.

Giles..

 

[revol68]

Hopefully things will calm down now, and they can go back to offing each other on the weekends for stuff like venturing into the neighbouring postcode or looking at someone else in a funny way.

Giles..

yeah hopefully the nasty reality will go away and us people that matter or atleast imagine ourselves to (despite repeated hints from the state) can carry on as normal.

 

[faux pas]

yeah hopefully the nasty reality will go away and us people that matter or atleast imagine ourselves to (despite repeated hints from the state) can carry on as normal.

The rioters are not responsible because they're just a product of their environment; we're not responsible as we're just a product of ours; the elite class aren't because they're just a product of theirs. It's just one giant mushy deterministic bowl.

But lets just exclude the rioters from it anyway, cause that makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[Garek]

The rioters are not responsible because their just a product of their environment; we're not responsible as we're just a product of ours; the elite class aren't because their just a product of theirs. It's just one giant mushy deterministic bowl.

But lets just exclude the rioters from it anyway, cause that makes sense, doesn't it?

Repeat 20 times until it is through your thick skull: "Seeking to understand is not seeking to condone"

Actually make that 200 times.

 

[faux pas]

Repeat 20 times until it is through your thick skull: "Seeking to understand is not seeking to condone"

Actually make that 200 times.

Of course it isn't, but in the absence of condemning the rioters, it would seem to be.

 

[revol68]

The rioters are not responsible because they're just a product of their environment; we're not responsible as we're just a product of ours; the elite class aren't because they're just a product of theirs. It's just one giant mushy deterministic bowl.

But lets just exclude the rioters from it anyway, cause that makes sense, doesn't it?

Please show your working out.

 

[Crispy]

Of course it isn't, but in the absence of condemning the rioters, it would seem to be.

Nobody in their right mind wouldn't condemn the rioting. It's like talking about the possible motives and reasons of, say, Charles Manson - the background he came from, the political and social movements of his time etc. and then being berated for not sitting down for 20 minutes beforehand and have a good thorough condemnation of the murders.

Nobody thinks firebombing your local pub is a good thing to do! Jeez.

 

[faux pas]

Nobody in their right mind wouldn't condemn the rioting. It's like talking about the possible motives and reasons of, say, Charles Manson - the background he came from, the political and social movements of his time etc. and then being berated for not sitting down for 20 minutes beforehand and have a good thorough condemnation of the murders.

Nobody thinks firebombing your local pub is a good thing to do! Jeez.

So, you're saying, it's so blatantly bad, it's not worth condemning. Wow!

 

[Crispy]

So, you're saying, it's so blatantly bad, it's not worth condemning. Wow!

No, it's so blatantly bad that it's like remarking that the sky is blue. It goes without saying. The logic is ridiculous.

"Did you say that Hitler was a bad man today?"
"Well, no..."
"THAT MAN RIGHT THERE CONDONES THE HOLOCAUST!"

(sorry to godwin)

 

[London_Calling]

As said elsewhere, every riot is political.

 

[faux pas]

No, it's so blatantly bad that it's like remarking that the sky is blue. It goes without saying.

But somehow only seems to mostly go without saying here. Only here it's too obvious to say. Hmm

 

[Maidmarian]

But somehow only seems to mostly go without saying here. Only here it's too obvious to say. Hmm

Yep ----- 'course it does.

 

[Santino]

Has everyone condemned the violence in Libya, Syria, Gaza and Somalia today?

 

[London_Calling]

It's ok, we've sent the UN in to protect the rioters.

 

[TruXta]

Has everyone condemned the violence in Libya, Syria, Gaza and Somalia today?

I haven't seen you condemning it.

 

[rekil]

Has everyone condemned the violence in Libya, Syria, Gaza and Somalia today?

I'm still condemning the looting that went on during the 1916 rising.

 

[Santino]

I haven't seen you condemning it.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions then.

 

[Spymaster]

Given that these police fuckups have a history of being followed by a lot of lies from the Met, and they've ALREADY been caught on one lie(duggan didn't fire at them)....

Did the OB say that he shot at them, or was that just The Sun?

The claim that it was a police bullet in the radio was made pretty quickly after the incident.