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Kicking Off In Tottenham

no they havent - it's a group of lawless thugs who need a good hiding - and, if they got one, would run home to their mums like little cry babies. They have false bravery in numbers. They might think differently when a few get badly hurt.
This is logic-free, reason-free, Sub-Daily Mail drivel that is unsupported by the facts, and which ignores the underlying causes, and it NEVER gives an answer to one rather important point; riots ALWAYS start in depressed, poor, socially blighted inner city neighbourhoods, as this did in Tottenham and Brixton, rather than in genteel home counties towns>
I LIVE in sucha poor neighbourhood, and used to work in Tottenham. I know these kids, and - trust me - they learn to take care of themselves from an early age, and will fight back hard. For as long as I can remember, the police have harassed kids in this area.
a crackdown as moronic as your post - and the whole of London will be up.
 
the problem the police have - and it's a problem you can see on streets right now - is that they can neither disperse their officers in penny packets nor concentrate them with any chance of 'success'. about half two there were pairs of officers dotted along the kingsland road in dalston and at highbury there were a couple of btp. what fucking use will they be if something kicks off? equally, concentrating them is unlikely to work because of the number of flashpoints there may well be. it's not like a demo where everyone's in one place or in one part of london - people will be in disparate parts of the city and will be highly mobile. in addition, where people on demonstrations have been notably reticent about burning buildings down since march 1990, the people on the streets now show no such reluctance. but perhaps more importantly only a couple of thousand - perhaps 3,000 - of the cops on the streets tonight will be public order trained. the other 13,000 are there to make up the numbers.

looking more closely at the numbers, they will have to be divided into shifts: no point asking some flatfoot plod to do 12 hours straight. in other words, while 16,000 sounds a fuck of a lot, it will be something much nearer 8,000 about at any one time. this too brings with it a number of logistical difficulties: will the met have so many suits of riot gear? i don't think so. and for people dressing up in riot gear for the first time in years, if they do, practical problems like going to the toilet will arise.

when things are in this context, raising the stakes seems like a fucking stupid thing to do, which is probably why they'll do it. the police are already stretched to fuck and if a couple more places - glasgow or edinburgh, coventry, leeds, wherever - then the police will be fucked. so the police have to win this quickly. but if they go for plastic baton rounds or exemplary beatings then their opposition will be more angry - and there are tens of thousands of young people who'd likely come out at that point. what i'm wondering is if the rioters will have a proper crack at the west end. they've broken their fear of the police and it would seem the logical end point for a spree of looting. but if they remain in the suburbs and their local areas, their home advantage may give them the edge over an increasingly tired police force which through fatigue and through the introduction of inexperienced officers are likely to make substantial errors.

the police leadership is absolutely dire, though this is no new thing. victory's been handed on a plate to the rioters, if they only turn out and take it. cracking down hard with beatings or running vehicles through crowds or baton rounds is likely to inflame the situation and to lead to a death. and if the cops kill someone then there'll be hell to pay.
agree with every word of this. good post pickman's
 
Arm them with RCG's!

:confused:

RCG.jpg
 
This is logic-free, reason-free, Sub-Daily Mail drivel that is unsupported by the facts, and which ignores the underlying causes, and it NEVER gives an answer to one rather important point; riots ALWAYS start in depressed, poor, socially blighted inner city neighbourhoods, as this did in Tottenham and Brixton, rather than in genteel home counties towns>
I LIVE in sucha poor neighbourhood, and used to work in Tottenham. I know these kids, and - trust me - they learn to take care of themselves from an early age, and will fight back hard. For as long as I can remember, the police have harassed kids in this area.
a crackdown as moronic as your post - and the whole of London will be up.

Well you carry on defending these retards. I suspect one or two won't wake up in the morning. And then all the lefties frothing in excitement at the insurrection can rally against the police.
 
#londonriots IPCC says first tests show no evidence Duggan fired. Bullet in the officer's radio was police issue (@fieldproducer)

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr_090811_dugganupdate.aspx

Surprise, surprise ...

Here's the version the Met's partners-in-corruption at the Sun were coming out with immediately after Duggan was killed.

Suspected gangster Mark Duggan, 29, fired a handgun at an armed cop, whose life was saved when the bullet hit his radio.
The officer returned fire with his Heckler & Koch MP5 sub-machine gun - blasting dad-of-five Duggan twice in the face before slumping to the ground.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...lfriend-to-say-The-feds-are-following-me.html
 
Well you carry on defending these retards. I suspect one or two won't wake up in the morning. And then all the lefties frothing in excitement at the insurrection can rally against the police.
Seriously, are you blind, or just a tad simple-minded? :facepalm:
NO-ONE is 'defending' the rioters; there's a whole world of difference between 'defending' or excusing their actions - and seeking to understand what caused this to happen.
IF we do get understand why all of this happened, we may, just possibly, forestall a repeat occurrence.
kneejerk 'shoot the scum' frothing, on the other hand, is even more mindless than the looters themselves, and will - if followed by the police - simply lead to more and worse trouble, becuase there is rather a lot of evidence to suggest violence only ever begets more violence.
 
Even if they get the Paras to come shoot some people (a tactic which I seem to recall being not entirely successful when previously tried) ...

... I don't see how it's going to stop rioters from swarming where the police/army/vigilantes-in-super-hero-costumes are not.
 
Seriously, are you blind, or just a tad simple-minded? :facepalm:
NO-ONE is 'defending' the rioters; there's a whole world of difference between 'defending' or excusing their actions - and seeking to understand what caused this to happen.
IF we do get understand why all of this happened, we may, just possibly, forestall a repeat occurrence.
kneejerk 'shoot the scum' frothing, on the other hand, is even more mindless than the looters themselves, and will - if followed by the police - simply lead to more and worse trouble, becuase there is rather a lot of evidence to suggest violence only ever begets more violence.
I hope people understand that this " it's all criminal and has no social cause " line directly aids the Tories as they continue their austerity drive. If there is no social cause behind the riots then there is no reason to change course. There is only a need for a stronger state and more repression alongside the cuts. Dismissing the economic causes of social unrest guarantees that this governments savage attacks on services and peoples life chances will continue unabaited and it guarantees that there will be more social unrest in the future
 
Seriously, are you blind, or just a tad simple-minded? :facepalm:
NO-ONE is 'defending' the rioters; there's a whole world of difference between 'defending' or excusing their actions - and seeking to understand what caused this to happen.
IF we do get understand why all of this happened, we may, just possibly, forestall a repeat occurrence.
kneejerk 'shoot the scum' frothing, on the other hand, is even more mindless than the looters themselves, and will - if followed by the police - simply lead to more and worse trouble, becuase there is rather a lot of evidence to suggest violence only ever begets more violence.

I am not blind at all but there isnt a reason why 99% of this has happened. I also hope that if you know some of the looters you'll help the police with their enquiries.
 
I hope people understand that this " it's all criminal and has no social cause " line directly aids the Tories as they continue their austerity drive. If there is no social cause behind the riots then there is no reason to change course. There is only a need for a stronger state and more repression alongside the cuts. Dismissing the economic causes of social unrest guarantees that this governments savage attacks on services and peoples life chances will continue unabaited and it guarantees that there will be more social unrest in the future
damn right, which is why the Tories will peddle the 'mindless thugs' line for all they're worth, and move heaven and earth to close of any line of debate that focuses on economic causal factors.
problem is, I think enough out there are mug enough to fall for it.:(
 
When you see someone persistently conflating 'explain' with 'excuse' you know you're dealing with dishonest arguments.

Problem for people who've been supporting neo-liberal policies over the last three decades though is that they've got no other way to avoid the facts staring them in the face from their screens today.
 
I am not blind at all but there isnt a reason why 99% of this has happened.
Whilst I agree that a lot of the rioters are simply mindless troublemakers, there certainly is a reason why this started; it's called deprivation, social decay, social and economic exclusion, police harassment, and the resentment those things cause.
Otherwise, please explain why this started in dirt-poor Tottenham and not (say) Virginia Water

I also hope that if you know some of the looters you'll help the police with their enquiries.
sorry, I don't betray my community, or my class. Itwas a police f-up that triggered all this, remember
 
When you see someone persistently conflating 'explain' with 'excuse' you know you're dealing with dishonest arguments.

Problem for people who've been supporting neo-liberal policies over the last three decades though is that they've got no other way to avoid the facts staring them in the face from their screens today.
nail, head, hit
 
Whilst I agree that a lot of the rioters are simply mindless troublemakers, there certainly is a reason why this started; it's called deprivation, social decay, social and economic exclusion, police harassment, and the resentment those things cause.
Otherwise, please explain why this started in dirt-poor Tottenham and not (say) Virginia Water

sorry, I don't betray my community, or my class. Itwas a police f-up that triggered all this, remember

I dont know - was it? Lets hope it doesn't affect you or anyone you know then
 
It's all over the news up here in Glasgow about the teenager being arrested for alleged incitement to riot. But otherwise, fingers crossed, quite quiet. It's marching season here so my thoughts are that the police are keeping a lid on things anyway. For now.
 
My money's on nothing much in London tonight, but it kicking off in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Portsmouth.
 
they've stripped northamptonshire police force bare to cover london tonight. Come on you belinge, smackthorn and lings boys.
 
a villain with a gun by all accounts - no loss to society
hold on there! 1) no criminal record has come to light yet - all is known is he spent some time on remand, which is hardly unusual for a young black man from Tottenham. The rest is rumours and accusations. Anyone can give an 'account', incuding the met who are in the habit of smearing their victims (such as De Menezes) via anonymous brioefings to reporters - it's proof that matters, and that ain't there yet.
2) a firearm was found 'at the scene' - the IPCC have not yet confirmed it was his, the cabbie's (yes, this happens) or the other passenger, or even a police plant (equally a known phenomenon). It hasn't been established that it was on his person
3) his best mate was murdered earlier this year - there is every chance that, if he was carrying the gun, it was for protection. I know this area, and IMO that don't make him a criminal - just scared.
4) What is KNOWN is that he was the dad in a long-term stable family unit. The point being, that means stability etc.
in other words, you're jumping the gun a tad (sorry, no pun intended). Given that these police fuckups have a history of being followed by a lot of lies from the Met, and they've ALREADY been caught on one lie(duggan didn't fire at them), it's best to wait for the full IPCC report
 
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