Kicking Off In Tottenham

[butchersapron]

Where's your facts then, twat?

Give it a fucking rest eh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Where's your facts then, twat?

Read the thread.

 

[claphamboy]

This bloke in croydon who was shot and has just died - who shot him? Gang stuff? OB?

Just much has been be said about, too much going on, the only thing I heard was the police were called to the scene of a shooting and made two arrests.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think a decision was made early on not to try and arrest people 'in the act'.

But 400+ were arrested, probably by snatch squads waiting to pounce on anyone carrying stolen stuff.

It's an easy way to do the job: Just stand back and then pick people off. Doubtless the usual "cops with cameras" will have been deployed too, so on top of the CCTV and other footage they'll have access to, the OB will have a goldmine of future arrests ready and waiting for boosting their performance tables at the next spending review.

 

[Streathamite]

Dictionaries don't normally list long phrases. But of course you wouldn't know that, would you?

There ARE specialist dictionaries which do PRECISELY that. as VP pointed out. better luck next time!

 

[treelover]

http://twitter.com/#!/VikramDodd

Vikram Dodd, Guardian, ''Police may use baton rounds: non lethal bullets tonight''

only one journo posting this at present..

 

[pk]

Paintball guns would be perfect - non-lethal, pretty painful, and a nice inky mark to identify core-troublemakers to the snatch squads.

 

[faux pas]

I have. What have I seen? Moralising about the need for hard deterrence and the like, and a right-wing spin on what is happening that favours punishment over any other approach.

What right-wing spin on what is happening? I may be suspect on an understanding approach to dealing with this situation right now. That is all - aside from your made-up shit.

So what if it grates? Is that a good reason to not engage?

I don't want an understanding approach to mass day-light robbery and massive arson. It's the approach, not that the deeper argument shouldn't be had.

Blah blah blah

yawn

I could speculate on the significance of your need to constantly belittle anyone who disagrees with you by calling them idiots or making remarks about their probable age, but I think I'll let other posters draw their own conclusions.

pot and kettle and one big delusional fucker

 

[Streathamite]

I lived in Tottenham for years - two places. Also I grew up near the Tottenham end of Forestreet (the border between Tottenham and Edmonton). There are probably a lot of people in Tottenham who don't trust the police. I probably don't disagree with a lot of what you have to say about the roots of the problem. Clearly, where we part company is our approach to this emergency. While London's in flames, I don't believe this disgusting behaviour should be dealt with in an understanding manner, else condone it and exacerbate it. You believe the opposite. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps heavy-handedness would exacerbate the problem. I don't believe anyone knows for sure. But I'm worried about sending the wrong message, as what they are doing is so principally wrong.

OK, i'll give you - those are some fair points. However, there is one thing I can ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE you; relations between police and community - not just da yoot - in most of w/c London are so abysmally bad, that a crackdown of the sort you seem to be advocating would simply make things about a hundred times worse.

 

[treelover]

good to see some of the bullies on here getting as good as they give out...

 

[pk]

OK, i'll give you - those are some fair points. However, there is one thing I can ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE you; relations between police and community - not just da yoot - in most of w/c London are so abysmally bad, that a crackdown of the sort you seem to be advocating would simply make things about a hundred times worse.

I do not believe this is true. There could have been hundreds of skulls cracked last night - there were not. The riots still occurred.

 

[faux pas]

There ARE specialist dictionaries which do PRECISELY that. as VP pointed out. better luck next time!

Yet, you used the indefinite article.

 

[treelover]

'Director of operations Richard Webber said:

It was an incredibly challenging night for everyone involved, but all the staff working in our control room, support departments and on the front line worked very professionally to help us reach patients as quickly as we could. On some occasions, this was made even more difficult as missiles were thrown at our vehicles and crews were threatened and intimidated while trying to care for people. '

why do these scum act like that? attacking ambulance staff?

 

[rover07]

OK, i'll give you - those are some fair points. However, there is one thing I can ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE you; relations between police and community - not just da yoot - in most of w/c London are so abysmally bad, that a crackdown of the sort you seem to be advocating would simply make things about a hundred times worse.

I agree and I think the police know it.

 

[treelover]

apparrently some footballers including Stan Collymore are getting involved in the riot clean ups that are going on, atonement?

 

[Maidmarian]

'Director of operations Richard Webber said:

It was an incredibly challenging night for everyone involved, but all the staff working in our control room, support departments and on the front line worked very professionally to help us reach patients as quickly as we could. On some occasions, this was made even more difficult as missiles were thrown at our vehicles and crews were threatened and intimidated while trying to care for people. '

why do these scum act like that? attacking ambulance staff?

Will you stop screaming "why oh why" & start engaging with the undelying reasons, which have been previously posted ?

 

[pk]

Popular opinion in Croydon area seems simple: either the cops deal with it or the residents will.
It seems many locals have elected to arm themselves with whatever they have to defend their streets.
I would be very, very surprised if there were not some serious casualties and even more deaths, if the scenes from last night are attempted to be repeated there tonight.

 

[treelover]

'07.33 Deputy Assistant Commissioner Stephen Kavanagh, who has been key Met spokesman during the riots, says the profile of the rioters has changed since the initial outbreak of violence in Tottenham on Saturday night.

On Sunday we had some younger groups, aged 14 to 17, the profile last night changed to dramatically with older groups in cars doing organised looting. They were more focused on injuring London Ambulance staff who were trying to help, fire officers and of course police'

I'm sorry M/M but now on a lot of issues I am parting company with many of the socialists on here, this is not Brixton in the 80's in fact read this

oh and this is a bulletin board, many people will want to know what is happening, not just the regular posters..

 

[treelover]

unless you don't believe the Cop..

 

[belboid]

we can use the internet to read Telegraph updates for ourselves, we dont need some cretin mindlessly repeating the ones that suit him.

I'm surprised you didn't repeat the Rossiya 24 claim that animals had been released from London Zoo and lions and tigers could now be heard roaring on the street

 

[ViolentPanda]

What right-wing spin on what is happening? I may be suspect on an understanding approach to dealing with this situation right now. That is all - aside from your made-up shit.

You've answered your own question.

I don't want an understanding approach to mass day-light robbery and massive arson. It's the approach, not that the deeper argument shouldn't be had.

Have I said, anywhere, that the situation shouldn't be policed, that things should be allowed to happen? Nope. Not once. That doesn't obviate, however, a need to understand not just why these events started, but why they've continued, too.

yawn

pot and kettle and one big delusional fucker

Yeah, whatever.

 

[ViolentPanda]

good to see some of the bullies on here getting as good as they give out...

Why not have the courage of your convictions, and name and shame these bullies, eh?

That way, anyone reading the thread will be able to judge for themselves to what degree bullying is taking place, and to what degree you're indulging in a bit of whining.

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK, i'll give you - those are some fair points. However, there is one thing I can ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE you; relations between police and community - not just da yoot - in most of w/c London are so abysmally bad, that a crackdown of the sort you seem to be advocating would simply make things about a hundred times worse.

We used to reckon, back when we were getting SUSed and lamped by the old bill back in the late '70s-early '80s that things couldn't get any worse, and in some instances, after '81 and '85, they got a bit better, usually due to communities pulling together against a common enemy - sometimes the local authority but more often the police. Many of the gains that were made, though, dissolved as the old unified communty leaderships dissolved, with Major and New Labour's approach to multi-culturalism, i.e. de-unifying the communities by emphasising the benefits of only looking after their own interests. We're back now in a similar situation to the early '70s, with the added problem of mass youth unemployment, and no method to absorb some of that energy, because fuck knows the army isn't hiring anymore, and the number of "apprenticeships" worthy of the name is miniscule.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I do not believe this is true. There could have been hundreds of skulls cracked last night - there were not. The riots still occurred.

You seem to be using "rioting" and "looting" interchangeably, but the general pattern seems to be (going on past looting "sprees") that head-cracking of looters is more effective at deterrence than head-cracking of people with a grievance (imagined or real), so it may well depend on who you're talking about as to how effective any skull-cracking would be.

 

[belboid]

Jamie Olivers brum restaurant trashed apparently. The rioters clearly have some sense of social responsibility then.

 

[ViolentPanda]

apparrently some footballers including Stan Collymore are getting involved in the riot clean ups that are going on, atonement?

Licking an entire barracks bog-block clean wouldn't atone for being Stan Collymore, to be fair.

 

[Streathamite]

good to see some of the bullies on here getting as good as they give out...

waaah! miss! he pointed out I'm talking utter bollocks!

 

[Streathamite]

We used to reckon, back when we were getting SUSed and lamped by the old bill back in the late '70s-early '80s that things couldn't get any worse, and in some instances, after '81 and '85, they got a bit better, usually due to communities pulling together against a common enemy - sometimes the local authority but more often the police. Many of the gains that were made, though, dissolved as the old unified communty leaderships dissolved, with Major and New Labour's approach to multi-culturalism, i.e. de-unifying the communities by emphasising the benefits of only looking after their own interests. We're back now in a similar situation to the early '70s, with the added problem of mass youth unemployment, and no method to absorb some of that energy, because fuck knows the army isn't hiring anymore, and the number of "apprenticeships" worthy of the name is miniscule.

ain't it all so tragically true

 

[Streathamite]

Yet, you used the indefinite article.

brilliant, tedious grammatical nitpicking, thatcherite hatred of working class kids AND zero attempt at any reasoned arguments!

 

[Streathamite]

dp