Kicking Off In Tottenham
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
Corax
Luke 5:16
That's not a question.
You asked Streathamite that. Perhaps you should check your own posts before laying on the pseudopsychology.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
oh, so you are capable of reading other peoples posts, then (even if, after ten years, you are still too dumb to actually use the 'reply' button). why havent you bothered replying to any of the (many) posts pointing out how you have been talking nonsense on the rest of the thread? you keep copying out Daily Telegraph posts without thinking about whether they have any basis in fact - and some are blatantly nonsense. There is no reason why anyone should bother with any of the drivel you post
Well, I assumed that you'd read the other reply I posted so I stand corrected if you had not. I'm not laying on any psychology, pseduo or otherwise. What do you think - what does separate them?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Another one part of the problem not the solution. LOL away, you fucking vegetable.
You consider scared old folk worried about the fires funny? Yeah LOL. LOL LOL.
Paris Garters
Apparently back.
bit of news from a friend in Leeds: someone got shot in chapeltown, police showed up with dogs and 'tried to antagonise' the crowd, who didn't rise to it.
e2a it all seems calm now. can't help but be interested In the behaviour of the cops though.
e2a it all seems calm now. can't help but be interested In the behaviour of the cops though.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
NO-ONE finds it funny pk, it's simply that writing of 1000s of disaffected youth simply won't help.
This is about rather more than them being 'scum', or whatever.
I'm right in the middle of East London,and I'm scared. And tottenham - a place I care about - is in ruins.
You think I'm enjoying this? i can assure you that I'm not
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
Corax
Luke 5:16
Could be any one of a host of things - a parent who emphasised certain things, an inspiring teacher, a certain reading of their faith, and countless other possibilities.
But the shitter the environment, the more the positive aspects in someone's life have to contend with negative ones, and the more people are likely to feel that this kind of thing is acceptable. It's not a zero-sum game, it's not black and white, it's not that a certain environment will nurture only one type of person, it's that it will nurture more of a particular mindset. Citing examples of people that have managed to overcome the conditions they've been raised in doesn't mean that the environment isn't largely responsible for those that haven't.
That riots like this only tend to happen in places of poverty and it's associated characteristics has a reason. If it's not the environment that they are living in then what is it?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
because some of the rioters - as I have said repeatedly - ARE scumbags.
Because some people express their anger, frustration and resentment in different ways to others?
Because people have different outlooks due to different parenting?
because some are more angry than others?
because some are more desperate than others?
because we all have different lives, and different stories?
there are loads of different reasons, but either way, the fact that a HUGE, massive number of the youth in quite a few now of London's most impoverished neighbourhoods have taken to the streets indicates that this isn't just a few evil-doers, as your incredibly simplistic black-and-white outlook would seem to have it.
Now, as I have answered your post, how about you have the decency to giove a PROPER answer to my question, and not the sub-Daily Mail-esque answer above.
I repeat:
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
many are, yes. And since when is it surprising that the youth lose their heads, and do stupid and thoughtless things?
But again, thse morons are in the tiny minority. Is it poverty that leads to violence or is it the case that individuals who are spiteful, ignorant bullies become/remain impoverished? It might not be particularly reassuring to think that some people are just nasty cunts rather than a product of their environment, but what else is there to separate these dozens of people from the millions of others raised in similar circumstances really?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
eh? when the fuck was I talking to you?? swerve on
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
Blame the poor for being poor ?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I just resent the armchair anarchist. Anyone with bollocks would be helping people in this. Normal stuff. Maybe nobody here is anything to do with Croydon. I've had a fucking day of it, I can tell you, maybe I'm just not making sense, whatever
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
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9.26pm: Peter Walker has more from Catford.
I just watched an extraordinary scene in Catford, maybe half a mile from the main trouble. With the police occupied a small group of young men decided to kick down the door of a Halfords store, in full view of the busy South Circular road. As they tried and tried - the shutters were tough - a crowd formed, and cars stopped. One young woman leaned out of her car, laughing: "Satnav! I want a satnav!" she yelled at them.
9.26pm: Peter Walker has more from Catford.
I just watched an extraordinary scene in Catford, maybe half a mile from the main trouble. With the police occupied a small group of young men decided to kick down the door of a Halfords store, in full view of the busy South Circular road. As they tried and tried - the shutters were tough - a crowd formed, and cars stopped. One young woman leaned out of her car, laughing: "Satnav! I want a satnav!" she yelled at them.
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
So fucking understanding. You'd be understanding right to the end, wouldn't you! The end of all of us.
'Stupid and thoughtless' is getting too pissed one night and fucking your ex. This is putting people's lives at risk!
So fucking understanding of such base acts! It's because of people like you that the police have their hands tied and all they can do is stand there and watch us all become victims of the devastation!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I honestly don't know - yet.
but I do know how we DON'T deal with them - by writing a whole generation of inner city kids off as 'scum', by demonising and vilifying them, or turning their estates into a Police State, and seeing this purely as a law & order problem, and sending the cops in to tame them (this problem was started by the police!)
because they aren't scum; they're simply youth who have grown up at the hard end, with fewer reasons to adhere to the rules of a society that offers them diddly, and less to lose by raising two fingers to the whole damn lot.
My heart breaks when I see kids here, or in Tottenham - no-one's ever given a fuck about them, paid them attention, given them opportunities, or simply made them feel they're someone or something.
Plus - endless harassment by the cops.
And now these cuts hit their families hardest.
We really shouldn't be surprised when they riot.
is it a "HUGE, massive number" really? Looks like a tiny proportion to me. I am not prepared to tar a whole generation of kids because of the actions of a few of their most ignorant peers.
I don't see anything particularly black-and-white in what I have posted. I wanted to know what separates the minority of these morons from the vast majority of their peers. Doesn't look like anyone can shed any light on that on this thread.
There are complex social and economic causal factors. But, unpleasant as it may be to come to this conclusion, I also happen to think that some people are just nasty evil cunts and to ascribe all these actions to their upbringing is wrong.
Corax
Luke 5:16
On the contrary, I think it's far easier for you to hold tight to the idea that it's all because some people are just naturally violent and thuggish than to confront the fact that the state systematically fucks people over.
Like I said, it's either nature or nurture. And your post above essentially states that it's nature, that these people are genetically evil. What's more, you're claiming that this is the reason they're poor.
It's one for posterity, truly.
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
Yea !!! We all KNOW it's all Streth's fault !
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I didn't say that it was "all because some people are naturally violent" - see my reply to Strathamite. So you don't think some people are naturally violent and thuggish? Why not? Because it's not something which is particularly pleasant to contemplate? Or are there other reasons?
Why is it "either" nature or nuture? It it not possible to be some combination of the two?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Normally I'd answer with a measured, thoughtful reply.
however, you sir, are such a complete and utter brain-damaged moron that such things would be wasted on you. go and crawl back under your rock with your copy of the Sun and your Janet & John guide to modern society, there's a good chap, reasoned, adult debate is not for you.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
of course it is! However, it's different in each and every individual case, and difficult to quantify - so it makes more sense to focus on the bit we can do something about - the wider socioeconomic context.
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