Kicking Off In Tottenham

[past caring]

You fuck off. Volunteer in A+E, and see how long you last, internet hardman.

Read the fucking thread before giving it large you mug. She works in A+E - big fucking deal. She was getting pulled not for suggesting that some people abuse NHS staff, butfor a load of bigoted shite posted earlier in the thread. By your logic, having to deal with crims every day excuses all manner of bigotry in plod, too.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Down by the Hackney Empire now. Careful not to incur the wrath of Benjamin Zephaniah, kids!

 

[Sue]

Just watching the footage. Mare St closed just past the Empire. Bus just got attacked.

 

[Sue]

Maybe now isn't the best time to take my books back to the library...

 

[Spymaster]

By your logic, having to deal with crims every day excuses all manner of bigotry in plod, too.

Don't know if it excuses it, but it certainly goes some way to explaining it, no?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Seems to me that there are is an awful lot of generalisation going on in this thread! Those of you who seem to be apologists for the rioters trot out any old nonsense to try and explain away what is just basic criminality! You seem to be saying that everybody brought up in deprived circumstances will go on to be a failure in life, and that the acts of riot arson and wanton destruction are inevitable by-products of their dysfunctional lives.

Nope, I'm not saying that, seemingly or otherwise. I'm saying (in opposition to your claims about people aspiring to hang out on street corners and wishing to become "drug lords") that the opposite is true in spite of the circumstances. Most of the local rude-boy youth around here might brag to their mates about how "gangsta" they are, and they may even, heaven forfend, hang out on street corners, but many aspire to more, and to legitimacy.

But that's just not true is it? Most people don't behave like the idiot yobs we have witnessed over the last couple of nights, most people are basically good law-abiding citizens who just want a peaceful life.

Actually, we know that "most people" abide by laws if there's a significant chance of them getting caught breaking them. Humans are acquisitive. We wear the veneer of civilisation because, on balance, it benefits us to do so, not because we're "good".

What we are witnessing is the criminal minority who think it's cool to attack the police and smash stuff up, without a thought for their neighbours and their community.

And you know this how? Exactly what mechanism are you using that allows you to define what people thinking (or not)? You're projecting.

 

[Streathamite]

Seems to me that there are is an awful lot of generalisation going on in this thread! Those of you who seem to be apologists for the rioters trot out any old nonsense to try and explain away what is just basic criminality! .

WHO is doing this, precisely? I am certainly not doing this; I am simply saying that you cannot remove the social and economic context of Tottenham's huge problems, or police racism and harassment from the situation - or else you end up with the POV that the residents of Kensington are simply morally superior to the youth of Tottenham

You seem to be saying that everybody brought up in deprived circumstances will go on to be a failure in life, and that the acts of riot arson and wanton destruction are inevitable by-products of their dysfunctional lives.

FFS! do you have a comprehension problem? No-one is saying this, simply that its' far harder to break that cycle, then it is to go on and get ahead, and lead a productive, law-abiding life, if you have all of life's advantages.

that's just not true is it? Most people don't behave like the idiot yobs we have witnessed over the last couple of nights, most people are basically good law-abiding citizens who just want a peaceful life.

Yes they are - but you don't riot if you have a good job, a nice home to come home to, and the feeling that there is something in this society for you

What we are witnessing is the criminal minority who think it's cool to attack the police and smash stuff up, without a thought for their neighbours and their community

That is PART of the truth - but only part. Yes a lot of the rioters are simply mindless hooligans, but there IS also people taking out their resentment at allk the things I've mentioned, plus this riot is an almost-inevitable consequence of thrusting a consumer society down the throats of people who will never earn enough to fully enjoyits' fruits.
VP) was right - your thinking on this is incredibly simplistic.
Life ain't like that - not in tottemham, not anywhere

 

[belboid]

Don't know if it excuses it, but it certainly goes some way to explaining it, no?

No.

I've known various people who worked in A&E too. None of them shared 'her' bigotry.

 

[stuff_it]

Someone dies, and all you can do is whinge about parking.

She'd fit right in at ATOS http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/08/06/debbie-carr-atos-hcp-thinks-clients/

No.

I've known various people who worked in A&E too. None of them shared 'her' bigotry.

I've worked in A&E, and know people that have...none were bigots.

 

[likesfish]

release the honey badgers
lets see if those looted trainers really make you run faster

 

[past caring]

Don't know if it excuses it, but it certainly goes some way to explaining it, no?

OK - so now we know some of the reasons why she has come out with her bigoted shit. That still leaves the shit to be dealt with.

 

[ViolentPanda]

When did the NHS start to issue blue badges, billie?

Just about never. It's a local authority matter. The only time the NHS comes into it is if you're one of the minority of badge-holders who doesn't get their badge due to underlying entitlement (i.e. because you receive DLA, SDA or AA) but because their GP has provided evidence (generally results from consultant referrals) of medical need.

Still, I'm sure that's what Billie-boy meant.

 

[BlackArab]

Sky expressing surprise that young people move quickly and talk on mobiles.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Have you ever been in A+E? I've worked in one. People are abusive all the fucking time. Nurses and doctors get verbal abuse, racism, punched, kicked and spat at. Regularly. If that's not abusing the NHS I don't know what is. People need to back off Billie Piper. Anyone commenting in this thread who hasn't worked in A+E on a weekend needs to shut the fuck up

Does having worked in A & E make you sacrosanct from criticism, then?

Get away to fuck.

 

[Spymaster]

No.

I've known various people who worked in A&E too. None of them shared 'her' bigotry.

A couple of mates down the pub?

What bigotry specifically?

So far I've just seen her bemoaning pissheads and piss-takers. I know dozens of medics who've been through A&E, the vast majority of whom have very similar views.

 

[Red Storm]

http://twitter.com/#!/frasereC4/status/100594450102882305

Night three in Hackney

 

[Streathamite]

Don't know if it excuses it, but it certainly goes some way to explaining it, no?

yes, but I hope we're agreed it doesn't make it acceptable

 

[dylans]

The thing about a riot is it is, by its nature, a confused mess of motivations. Some people hate the cops and want to have a go. Some people want to express pent up rage at the hopeless situation they are in. Some are anti social and criminal chancers taking an opportunity to get a new lap top. Some are consciously political and want paypack for years of police brutality and economic hopelessness. The important thing is context and we can't ignore the fact that these are occurring at a time of unprecidented class war against the poorest in society and an austerity programme that is making the lives of many people more hopeless and desperate than ever. At the same time as savage economic cuts we also have the example of blatant double standards and corruption at the very top of the political establishment. The whole murdoch fiasco has demonstrated just how corrupt the entire establishment is with the resignation of the top police chiefs and reports of endemic institutional corruption at the met.

These two things come together very neatly here and it only takes a spark,to create an eruption like we are seeing now. It is no coincidence that this began with the police brutalising and killing someone. The 1985 riots also started this way. Cynthia Jarrett anyone? So we have an huge swathe of the population who increasingly have no stake in society. A generation of people for whom the celebrated aspirations of life are dangled in front of them but are increasingly out of reach. People stuck on the dole watching property shows selling dreams they will never have, and presenting middle class success stories that they know they will never live. Is it surprising then that people burn property.Shops full of stuff they are told they must have to be a proper person but no money to buy them. Is it surprising then that people break the windows and nick the stuff they have been told they need? When people are made to believe that society and the aspirations and dreams of society are for someone else, when their day to day lives demonstrate that they are outside in the rain with their faces pressed up against the glass windows as the wealthy and powerful live lives denied to them and even ignore laws applied to them, Is it surprising that they smash the windows? A Riot is an act of collective rage and frustration by those who have been denied a stake in society. It's a collective scream of frustration and anger by people whose voices are ignored. Yes it's messy and contradictory and confused and often ugly. It says "I bet you are listening now?" And they are right. They are listening now

 

[ViolentPanda]

they don't issue them but the declaration of someone being declared disabled is nearly always made by a doctor.

And has to be substantiated with actual medical evidence, Billie-boy. The old-fashioned "doctor's letter" doesn't mean shit anymore. That's why the form includes a section where you consent to your medical records being accessed.

 

[Giles]

yep - the budget for youth services has been cut by 75% due to the condems (this once, it's not LB Haringey's fault, useless bastards though they are, and the councillors really hated having to do this) - and they wonder why the youth have taken to the streets.
I could weep.

Oh, right. My local pub closed down as well, and guess what ..... I didn't go out and smash up the local KFC / trainer shop / etc/

Stop making excuses for subhuman scumbags trashing neighbourhoods where people have to live!

Giles..

 

[BlackArab]

How on earth do you lot get Billie Bullshit to reply?

 

[krtek a houby]

the news is all too often long on allegations and short on proof.

Bit like one or two posters here

 

[BlackArab]

Oh, right. My local pub closed down as well, and guess what ..... I didn't go out and smash up the local KFC / trainer shop / etc/

Stop making excuses for subhuman scumbags trashing neighbourhoods where people have to live!

Giles..

You're comparing youth services to your pub, c'mon Giles you and I know you can do better that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So if there's any lying involved, it's the doctor doing it. Or are you saying that doctors are mugs, taken in by whatever cock and bull the patient tells them about their gammy leg? How many of these dodgy blue badge holders are there then, in your estimation ( a percentage figure will do).

There's a fuck-load more stolen and counterfeit ones floating around than "dodgy" ones gotten through doctors lying/being coerced into lying.

Same complaint was often vomited up by people about Incapacity Benefit and Disability Living Allowance - That doctors would tell porkies for their patients.

Totally missing the fact that entitlement long-term to those benefits is predicated on some tortuously bastardly medical examinations and access to your medical records.

 

[Teepee]

Does having worked in A & E make you sacrosanct from criticism, then?

Get away to fuck.

No it doesn't. But it does make you understand where she's coming from. If you haven't done it, you have no hope of getting it.

 

[nino_savatte]

Stop making excuses for subhuman scumbags trashing neighbourhoods where people have to live!

Giles..

The Nazis were fond of referring to certain people as "subhuman". I just thought I'd remind you of that, Mr. High Evolutionary.

 

[madzone]

A couple of mates down the pub?

What bigotry specifically?

So far I've just seen her bemoaning pissheads and piss-takers. I know dozens of medics who've been through A&E, the vast majority of whom have very similar views.

Dozens is it? How do you know them then?

 

[belboid]

A couple of mates down the pub?

What bigotry specifically?

So far I've just seen her bemoaning pissheads and piss-takers. I know dozens of medics who've been through A&E, the vast majority of whom have very similar views.

A&E's on London and Sheffield, doctors, nurses, and a fair few ambulance drivers. None of them have you the bigotries you share with Billie. Bigotries which are not restricted to bemoaning pissheads, such as:

And I saw significantly more black and Asian people doing the looting/rioting.

This is what happens when instead of giving the man a fishing rod you give him fish and then you stop giving them fish. These are simple people who have lost the ability to function like humans, they have de-evolved into dumb, purposeless cattle and a few predatory wolves. But we are a rich society and the easiest course of action is to lob these creatures some food and shiny things to keep them out of our sight and we must recognise that they will get uppity when you forget to feed them. They are solely dependent like babies.

 

[madzone]

No it doesn't. But it does make you understand where she's coming from. If you haven't done it, you have no hope of getting it.

Working in A&E doesn't give people some kind of right to spout ill-informed shit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

How terrible.... He should have got 25 to life.

Or the death sentence...oh wait...