Kicking Off In Tottenham

[Streathamite]

Not in the slightest. If the assumption that nice areas are nice because the people that live there make it so then surely it has to logically follow that bad areas are bad because the people that live there make it so, and either way, people have the power to turn round their areas if they put their mind to it.

absolute bollocks, and tory bollocks at that. Poverty, deprivation, social exclusion and other wider social and economic factors are the critical ones

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Nick Clegg warns of riots if Tories are elected.

oops.

 

[likesfish]

there was a talking head ex copper saying the the ippc doing their job takes time .
Its not CSI they can't wrap it up in an hour and a handgun round hitting a radio may or may not be identifiable especially if its a hollow point.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

The latest IPCC report states that they should know (and release) more about the ballistic evidence within 24 hours.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr_080811_markduggan.aspx

One to watch.

 

[butchersapron]

A nurse dependent on the welfare state attacking the welfare state. What a double mug.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

there was a talking head ex copper saying the the ippc doing their job takes time

If they ever do it all.

 

[Billie Piper]

Do you tell your work mates about your de-evolution theories? If not, why not?

absolutely. the amount of scum who come through our doors is amazing and provides ample evidence for my theory.

 

[Billie Piper]

I hope to god you are right, poor old N15 and N17 have enough on their plate without someone with as much hate in them caring for their ill

n15 and n17 are both safe from my clutches. i now merely help those with terminal illnesses have a safe and comfortable journey to wherever they are heading next. my a&e days are over.

 

[Spymaster]

I wouldn't be surprised if they had of done. The IPCC sweep it under the carpet, which they do so well.

But given how relatively easy it would be for these bent, homicidal coppers to save the IPCC the trouble and just plant a more suitable round in the radio, don't you think they'd do it, rather than just hoying in a round from an MP5 and hoping for the best with the IPCC?

I think you might be getting a little bit carried away with this one, Bishta.

 

[ViolentPanda]

btw: el Pais has this as racial, interested to hear any other foreign language coverage

Suddeutsche Zeitung says (rough translation):
"Why did the Tottenham situation escalate?

It started with a mysterious death on the evening of 4th

August of Tottenham man Mark Duggan from a police bullet, the exact circumstances are still unclear.​

August died on Tottenham Mark Duggan by a police bullet, the circumstances surrounding the incident are still unclear. Two days later, on Saturday afternoon, the Duggan family and friends gathered outside the local police station. More than 100 protesters demanded justice as Duggan's fiancee demanded answers from the authorities - without success

Actually, the protesters gather at 5pm were planning to protest for an hour long silence and stop the event before the onset of darkness. BHowever, the wished-for interview with a police officer did not materialize and protesters therefore remained in protest at the front of the police station.

It has been argued that representatives of local groups should have warned the authorities of the charged atmosphere, where "criminal elements" had taken over the demonstration according to the police. The conflict ended in an orgy violences, pictures of which have been broadcast around the world.

Hooligans are said to have come from outside the area, and trouble flared in three neighbouring districts as well as in Brixton in south London all problem areas. As there had already been a build up of social tension, Duggan's death appears to have been the last straw.

In the early hours of Monday young people were still clashing with police. Scotland Yard says that they agreed where to meet on the internet, and to set fire to cars, homes and businesses. The officials say they were shocked by the extent of the violence. More than 100 rioters were arrested. Nine police officers are injured."

Not a brilliant translation, but a little bit better than Google-Translate.

 

[butchersapron]

absolutely. the amount of scum who come through our doors is amazing and provides ample evidence for my theory.

This evidence - it's empirical? It supports your case materially. Let's see it then. This ample evidence.

 

[butchersapron]

<<>>

Cheers VP. Appreciated.

 

[London_Calling]

Anyone calling it the 'London Spring' yet....

This time next year the Olympics would have started.... is it too late to suggest some new events?

 

[Billie Piper]

This evidence - it's empirical? It supports your case materially. Let's see it then. This ample evidence.

you attempt to clutch at straws is very amusing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

a slap on the wrist?

If you were lucky, 24 hours of torment in the guard-house.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I think you might be getting a little bit carried away with this one, Bishta.

Plod cover ups in cases like this seem to be so predictable.

 

[Streathamite]

Fair enough, but if my generalising is bollocks what about Streathamite's post #1410 on page 47 of this thread? He says:

"You are utterly, totally wrong, and it shows your stunning ignorance of this area (as well as your utterly worthless Tory politics).​

Tottenham has some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country. To grow up here is to grow up without hope, without jobs or prosperity, in a community scarred by crime, drugs,gangs and despair, with a blatantly racist, brutal local OB, into disfunctional, impoverished families, with a feeling that gets stronger every day that no-one gives a shit about you, and that this society offers you nothing.​

Sooner or later, that social pressure creates a breaking point - and this was it."​

He is saying basically the same as me, why is my view bollocks and his isn't?​

I will admit, I went OTT, because I care passionately about the place. It's not that bad, and there is some fantastic community organising happening in the place from groups such as HAPS (until recently, I was a member, when I worked in Wood green), and the truly excellent HSG (not to mention the utterly irrepressible Mcdonald's 2!) but the broad brush strokes are correct.
Tottenham's key problems are poverty, deprivation and a lack of opportunities for the youth. Plus, the council has slashed 75% of youth services budget - so the kids have even less to do.

 

[butchersapron]

you attempt to clutch at straws is very amusing.

Laugh long and laugh well then billie - let's see the 'ample evidence'. Give us something.

 

[London_Calling]

Or ample cleavage, I'm not fussed.

 

[Tankus]

there are a number of influences on tottenham, which i will then contrast with the influences on kensington and chelsea. the people who live in tottenham generally have very little power, wealth, authority or influence. ...... and educational opportunities ...yadda yadda etc....
an area's population plays a part in determining if an area's 'good' or 'bad', but there are other actors and factors at play too.

yeah ...labour voters through and through ...non aspirational ...and keep them that way ..to keep on returning labour MP's and Councillor's , if your in politics in that area ...why would you want change ?..might cost you your secure job and greasy slide up the political pole of self gratification with gold plated benefits .....

Maybe Billy Bragg could write a song .....!

 

[past caring]

absolutely. the amount of scum who come through our doors is amazing and provides ample evidence for my theory.

Yes, but let's discount the staff entrance - your colleagues can't all be like you, surely?

 

[Spymaster]

n15 and n17 are both safe from my clutches. i now merely help those with terminal illnesses have a safe and comfortable journey to wherever they are heading next. my a&e days are over.

Palliative care in a N.London hospital?

We may well have some mutual friends.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fair enough, but if my generalising is bollocks what about Streathamite's post #1410 on page 47 of this thread? He says:

"You are utterly, totally wrong, and it shows your stunning ignorance of this area (as well as your utterly worthless Tory politics).​

Tottenham has some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country. To grow up here is to grow up without hope, without jobs or prosperity, in a community scarred by crime, drugs,gangs and despair, with a blatantly racist, brutal local OB, into disfunctional, impoverished families, with a feeling that gets stronger every day that no-one gives a shit about you, and that this society offers you nothing.​

Sooner or later, that social pressure creates a breaking point - and this was it."​

He is saying basically the same as me, why is my view bollocks and his isn't?​

Perhaps because it isn't "basically the same" at all.

Here's what you said:

"I hear what you are saying, and if I had grown up on some sink estate the product of dysfunctional parents, had not achieved anything educationally and all that I aspired to was hanging round on street corners, mugging teenagers for their mobiles and wishing I could be a drug lord, then yes I may well think that riot, looting and arson was the answer.

But we all know it's not don't we"

Notice how Streathamite doesn't say anything about aspiration and wishing? You decided to generalise those aspirations and wishes across the entirety of those involved.

Be a mensch, eh?

 

[Billie Piper]

Laugh long and laugh well then billie - let's see the 'ample evidence'. Give us something.

what evidence are you looking for? i must have seen 10,00s of people in my time as a nurse and have based my opinion of various groups on my interactions with them.

should i now start a spreadsheet of different types of people i meet so i can present it to professor apron?

 

[butchersapron]

what evidence are you looking for? i must have seen 10,00s of people in my time as a nurse and have based my opinion of various groups on my interactions with them.

should i now start a spreadsheet of different types of people i meet so i can present it to professor apron?

Some sort of evidence as to your theory of de-evolution.

 

[Billie Piper]

Yes, but let's discount the staff entrance - your colleagues can't all be like you, surely?

i find it quite amazing that i am being jumped upon for daring to suggest that people invovled in knife crime are scum.

 

[Streathamite]

n15 and n17 are both safe from my clutches. i now merely help those with terminal illnesses have a safe and comfortable journey to wherever they are heading next. my a&e days are over.

I feel profoundly sorry for anyone who has anyone as full of bile as you, 'caring' for them in their last days

 

[butchersapron]

i find it quite amazing that i am being jumped upon for daring to suggest that people invovled in knife crime are scum.

You're not.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

She is not a nurse. Nor a she.

*Yawn*. Why do people on Urban do this? I got accused of not being female when I dared to disagree with the nodding dogs!

Very odd.

 

[butchersapron]

Moving on.