Kicking Off In Tottenham

[bluestreak]

god there's a lot of twisted knickers around here.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Remember what used to happen to you if you did that in the Light Infantry, Bish?

I was guilty once of such a crime - i put it down to fatigue. That excuse didn't stick & i was beasted

 

[butchersapron]

I was guilty once of such a crime - i put it down to fatigue. That excuse didn't stick & i was beasted

That poor dog

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Also - the IPCC were at the scene of the shooting within a couple of hours. Can anyone remember that happening before?

 

[agricola]

Then that only leaves one explanation to answer dots' question - another pig cover up. Planting a police round in a radio? How low can they go?

Thats not very likely - for a start, if you were going to plant a round (edit: which of course means firing at it) in a radio, why on earth would you use a round that only the MPS used? Wouldnt that defeat the object of planting evidence to mislead a subsequent investigation?

Its more likely that either some other officer on the other side of Duggan fired at him (and missed, and hit a colleague - though they would surely have known whether this happened or not by now), or that the round has been mis-identified in the initial forensic tests (there still hasnt been official confirmation as to what it was), or that somehow some MPS ammunition has been lost / stolen / sold on.

 

[Spymaster]

Fitting someone up & then murdering them is the way the MET do things.

Nah!

I'm sure the odd Met officer has been a murderer, but I don't think it's an institutionalised problem.

If I were a homicidal copper I'd take the fella somewhere quiet, then shoot him in self defence when he 'tried to attack me'. None of this dragging him out of taxis and popping him twice in the face on the pavement in front of random witnesses.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Depends who's stood behind me. Is your abode still standing ?, the scenes on the tv looks like London in the blitz.

London is big. Tottenham is about 7 miles away as the crow flies, and on the other side of the Thames. One little tiny bit of it "looks like the blitz".

 

[Chrispeptide]

I'm saying that your generalising is a bag of bollocks, Chris.

Fair enough, but if my generalising is bollocks what about Streathamite's post #1410 on page 47 of this thread? He says:

"You are utterly, totally wrong, and it shows your stunning ignorance of this area (as well as your utterly worthless Tory politics).​

Tottenham has some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country. To grow up here is to grow up without hope, without jobs or prosperity, in a community scarred by crime, drugs,gangs and despair, with a blatantly racist, brutal local OB, into disfunctional, impoverished families, with a feeling that gets stronger every day that no-one gives a shit about you, and that this society offers you nothing.​

Sooner or later, that social pressure creates a breaking point - and this was it."​

He is saying basically the same as me, why is my view bollocks and his isn't?​

 

[butchersapron]

Nah!

I'm sure the odd Met officer has been a murderer, but I don't think it's an institutionalised problem.

If I were a homicidal copper I'd take the fella somewhere quiet, then shoot him in self defence when he 'tried to attack me'. None of this dragging him out of taxis and popping him twice in the face on the pavement in front of random witnesses.

Are you a mental armed copper?

 

[butchersapron]

Us: read this

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Thats not very likely - for a start, if you were going to plant a round in a radio, why on earth would you use a round that only the MPS used? Wouldnt that defeat the object of planting evidence to mislead a subsequent investigation?

Its more likely that either some other officer on the other side of Duggan fired at him (and missed, and hit a colleague - though they would surely have known whether this happened or not by now), or that the round has been mis-identified in the initial forensic tests (there still hasnt been official confirmation as to what it was), or that somehow some MPS ammunition has been lost / stolen / sold on.

Firstly, they wouldn't have a clue as to what rounds/firearm he was using. Secondly, plod wouldn't have been standing in any line of fire from their own officers. Thirdly, the info being leaked to the Guardian is telling me that they've once again, fucked up.

 

[eoin_k]

Paris centre was rebuilt after the commune to make it easy for the military to get cannons and horses onto the main roads. Interesting parallels with the diffused enterprise post 70s crisis.

I'm not convinced that it is all about physical town planning. Belfast has plenty of estates designed to suppress rioting with features like a single entrance road that makes it easy to control access. Despite this the city experiences more than its fair share of public order incidents. I think London could follow a Paris model simply by excluding the multitude/masses/people/working classes from the centre. While the city of London has seen a bit of agro over the years, its transformation from living city to a central business district has kept it relatively peaceful despite the medieval street plan.

 

[Blagsta]

Equally, please tell me the research you have done that shows they are employed and not soley reliant on benefits?

I am taking a wild stab in the dark based on my knowledge of the area and people in it from my work as a nurse in a North London hospital. I could be totally wrong and if I were to proved wrong I'd hold my hands up. But I don't think I am.

Also, at no point did I say people were poor because they were black so please do not put words in my mouth.

"59. You must not use your professional status to promote causes that are not related to health"

Recognise this?

 

[BlackArab]

Bumped as Billie and other posters who have pointed out the racial make up of the rioters seem to have missed it and I'm interested in their answers.

If they were anarchists and/or UK Uncut protestors would you feel it necessary to point out their racial backgrounds? If not, why not?

Billie, good to see you're back, was worried you had been looted by the yoots dem, popping out now but will read your reply when I'm back. x

 

[Red Storm]

Nick Clegg warns of riots if Tories are elected.

 

[cybertect]

Guardian is saying the "gun in the sock" info is from a "community organiser"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns

I believe this interview with Stafford Scott on Sky News yesterday is the source of the sock story

http://news.sky.com/home/video/16045305

The sock is mentioned at about 2m 15s

 

[past caring]

Guardian is saying the "gun in the sock" info is from a "community organiser"

The latest developments come as one community organiser suggested the handgun recovered was found in a sock and therefore not ready for use. It is likely to fuel anger on the streets of Tottenham and elsewhere in London if it provides evidence that officers were not under attack at the time they opened fire on Duggan.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns

"Our side" could do without some of the idiots, though. Not that hard to fire a gun whilst it's in a sock, I'd imagine. Might, in fact, be one way of avoiding getting prints on it.

 

[Dowie]

Its more likely that either some other officer on the other side of Duggan fired at him (and missed, and hit a colleague - though they would surely have known whether this happened or not by now), or that the round has been mis-identified in the initial forensic tests (there still hasnt been official confirmation as to what it was), or that somehow some MPS ammunition has been lost / stolen / sold on.

Could have been a ricochet too - would perhaps fit the execution on the pavement story - shooting someone against a hard surface at close range...

Shouldn't we be getting a full IPCC report fairly soon? Would be interesting to see their account of things especially with this police bullet in radio thing.

I really don't like the fact that they released very selective facts on this when they clearly pointed towards a story that wasn't true. They'd have known all along that it was a police round from accounts of what happened at the scene but they still released the select facts which indicated and prompted the media to print the story that there had been an exchange of fire.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not convinced that it is all about physical town planning. Belfast has plenty of estates designed to suppress rioting with features like a single entrance road that makes it easy to control access. Despite this the city experiences more than its fair share of public order incidents. I think London could follow a Paris model simply by excluding the multitude/masses/people/working classes from the centre. While the city of London has seen a bit of agro over the years, its transformation from living city to a central business district has kept it relatively peaceful despite the medieval street plan.

It's most certainly not about own planning, it's about the capital cycle. That's going on outside of the central parts. That's just where the thick rich people live.

 

[London_Calling]

Have the police actually said there was a gun at the scene and it wasn't a police gun because the IPCC were on the scene double quick?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Shouldn't we be getting a full IPCC report fairly soon? Would be interesting to see their account of things especially with this police bullet in radio thing.

Don't hold your breath!

 

[agricola]

Firstly, they wouldn't have a clue as to what rounds he was using. Secondly, plod wouldn't have been standing in any line of fire from their own officers. Thirdly, the info being leaked to the Guardian is telling me that they've once again, fucked up.

On your first point - whilst they might not have had a clue what rounds he was using, surely using police rounds to plant evidence is going to be even less likely to mislead someone than using some random round? You cant argue that they must have planted evidence, and then argue that they couldnt have known what evidence to plant - it makes no sense. Secondly, please note that most reports state the car was surrounded by armed officers, someone is going to be in the line of fire of someone on the other side, and accidents like this do happen.

 

[Spymaster]

Firstly, they wouldn't have a clue as to what rounds/firearm he was using.

No, but they'd be pretty fucking stupid to plant a round of police issue ammo, in a radio that they were going to say was shot by the suspect!

 

[agricola]

Could have been a ricochet too - would perhaps fit the execution on the pavement story - shooting someone against a hard surface at close range...

Shouldn't we be getting a full IPCC report fairly soon? Would be interesting to see their account of things especially with this police bullet in radio thing.

I really don't like the fact that they released very selective facts on this when they clearly pointed towards a story that wasn't true. They'd have known all along that it was a police round from accounts of what happened at the scene but they still released the select facts which indicated and prompted the media to print the story that there had been an exchange of fire.

The latest IPCC report states that they should know (and release) more about the ballistic evidence within 24 hours.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr_080811_markduggan.aspx

 

[Billie Piper]

either way, do you come out with this sort of spiteful, hateful shit in front of your colleagues, or the patients.
I'll bet you don't

colleagues? oh yes, we always talk about the idiots we have to treat.
patients? no, but equally i also don't tell them i fudd myself at night.

 

[Streathamite]

She is not a nurse. Nor a she.

I hope to god you are right, poor old N15 and N17 have enough on their plate without someone with as much hate in them caring for their ill

 

[Streathamite]

Yes, you've put your finger on it there aj.

like it

 

[butchersapron]

colleagues? oh yes, we always talk about the idiots we have to treat.
patients? no, but equally i also don't tell them i fudd myself at night.

Do you tell your work mates about your de-evolution theories? If not, why not?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

No, but they'd be pretty fucking stupid to plant a round of police issue ammo, in a radio that they were going to say was shot by the suspect!

I wouldn't be surprised if they had of done. The IPCC sweep it under the carpet, which they do so well.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

"Our side" could do without some of the idiots, though. Not that hard to fire a gun whilst it's in a sock, I'd imagine. Might, in fact, be one way of avoiding getting prints on it.

Indeed.

(thx to Cybertect also).