Kicking Off In Tottenham

[Pickman's model]

Nope, like everywhere else in a similar urban situation, they're running at double and treble figures of applicants for every vacancy, and fuck-all opportunities if you're a youth.

yeh there were 300 people went for each of my jobs.

 

[Streathamite]

A bunch of (mainly) teenage boys loading up trollies with stolen stuff, and setting people's cars, shops and homes on fire doesn't need a "socio economic context" any more than does a bunch of football hooligans or muggers: they are doing it because they want to steal shit and smash shit up. For fun, and personal gain.

Giles..

You are utterly, totally wrong, and it shows your stunning ignorance of this area (as well as your utterly worthless Tory politics).
Tottenham has some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country. To grow up here is to grow up without hope, without jobs or prosperity, in a community scarred by crime, drugs,gangs and despair, with a blatantly racist, brutal local OB, into disfunctional, impoverished families, with a feeling that gets stronger every day that no-one gives a shit about you, and that this society offers you nothing.
Sooner or later, that social pressure creates a breaking point - and this was it.
you EVER actually been to Tottenham, Giles? thought not. So please do not make these condescending assumptions about that community.

 

[Tankus]

because as i pointed out earlier, burning things is not conducive to the pasttime of looting.

err..... wrong ...it destroys evidence ..CCTV... prints... DNA and stuff

Creates a problem/diversion for the police that ties down manpower

 

[treelover]

'http://woodgreenbookshop.blogspot.com/2011/08/north-london-looting.html'

awful news about the family, this bookshop was trashed too, looters i shit em...

 

[Pickman's model]

err..... wrong ...it destroys evidence ..CCTV... prints... DNA and stuff

Creates a problem/diversion for the police that ties down manpower

stops you getting the stuff out the shop

 

[Streathamite]

A lot of that depends on your definition of poverty, ie not being able to buy the latest trainers, tv or have an expensive car and lots of bling.

Most of the reason that people see no chance of getting out of their "cycle of poverty" is because getting educated and working hard to improve yourself is not "cool" whereas hanging with your bluds and doing a bit of drug dealing gains "respect" amongst your peers.

I do not believe that anyone in our modern society cannot improve their lot. Admittedly it may be harder for some than others, however I really don't think it's beyond anyone's grasp.

You utter, fucking moron. You really don't have a clue, do you? These are neighbourhoods of sink schools, ghetto estates, unemployment, crack dens, massive deprivation...a world away from what I can only conclude is your nice, polite middle-class neighbourhood. EVERYTHING in tottenham is a desperate struggle just to get by.
They deal drugs cos there AREN'T any good legal jobs!

 

[stuff_it]

yeh there were 300 people went for each of my jobs.

On some sites you can see it go treble figures in under four hours for some positions.

I never had this much trouble getting a job back in the 90s recession. They want years of experience to do even the most menial jobs nowadays. Youth don't stand a chance really.

 

[Spymaster]

stops you getting the stuff out the shop

You grab yer swag then torch the gaff, innit? Fucks sake, Pickers, don't you even know how to go looting????

 

[Streathamite]

I do wonder how you lot always manage to turn things into a political issue.

hmm, maybe it's because everything IS a political issue, mayhap?
Christ, this thread really has brought out the reactionary fuckwits

 

[dennisr]

"march in Hackney. mare street shutters being closed" - so hackney?

(maybe this is your chance to develop technique pickers?)

 

[Pickman's model]

On some sites you can see it go treble figures in under four hours for some positions.

I never had this much trouble getting a job back in the 90s recession. They want years of experience to do even the most menial jobs nowadays. Youth don't stand a chance really.

it's fucking desperate for people on the rock

 

[ViolentPanda]

Either way it's hard to believe he wouldn't have noticed it 'til he got back to the nick

You know how the old saying goes, Norm. "No sense, no feeling".

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

"march in Hackney. mare street shutters being closed" - so hackney?

yes, have just heard the same, they reckon something planned for 3 or 4pm

 

[ajdown]

a world away from what I can only conclude is your nice, polite middle-class neighbourhood.

Ah yes, my lovely polite middle class neighbourhood... I live in Brixton.

 

[Tankus]

You grab yer swag then torch the gaff, innit? Fucks sake, Pickers, don't you even know how to go looting????

arf ....

 

[Pickman's model]

You grab yer swag then torch the gaff, innit? Fucks sake, Pickers, don't you even know how to go looting????

you seem to have more experience of this than i would have thought.

if it was looters though it is interesting that wood green didn't go up in flames.

 

[Pickman's model]

"march in Hackney. mare street shutters being closed" - so hackney?

(maybe this is your chance to develop technique pickers?)

we'll give it a go den

 

[dennisr]

Ah yes, my lovely polite middle class neighbourhood... I live in Brixton.

ah, neuvo-middle class then?

 

[Spymaster]

it's fucking desperate for people on the rock

.... especially since the Spanish tightened up the border controls.

 

[Pickman's model]

.... especially since the Spanish tightened up the border controls.

rock n roll - dole

 

[agricola]

You are utterly, totally wrong, and it shows your stunning ignorance of this area (as well as your utterly worthless Tory politics).
Tottenham has some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country. To grow up here is to grow up without hope, without jobs or prosperity, in a community scarred by crime, drugs,gangs and despair, with a blatantly racist, brutal local OB, into disfunctional, impoverished families, with a feeling that gets stronger every day that no-one gives a shit about you, and that this society offers you nothing.
Sooner or later, that social pressure creates a breaking point - and this was it.
you EVER actually been to Tottenham, Giles? thought not. So please do not make these condescending assumptions about that community.

The problem with this is analysis is that it is precisely one of those blights you mention - the gangs - who are behind most of this disorder, most of the crime, and far more attacks on the youth / the community than the OB (who by the way are not "blatantly racist, brutal") are.

Yes, Tottenham is very poor and the life chances of those who are raised there will be worse than most other places in the country, but we should not pretend that the vast majority of people who live and grew up there did this, or that the people who did do this have compelling reasons for doing so - any more than they have compelling reasons when they rob, stab, rape, shoot and kill other poor kids.

 

[nino_savatte]

Birbalsingh with another opportunistic blog. She's fucking shameless this one.

Last night as I walked home from the gym, passing lots of young black people who had come out for the festival in Brixton yesterday, I could feel it. Boys with hoods over their heads, on bikes, smiling… White policemen standing in pairs, watching… music blasting in the streets. I turned to my friend. “They’re waiting for something to happen. They’re just waiting to jump.”
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/k...-hung-around-waiting-for-something-to-happen/

Fucking filth.

 

[ajdown]

ah, neuvo-middle class then?

I don't "do" class identification, I refuse to be shoehorned into a little socio-demographic tickbox. I am me, and that's all there is to it.

*shrug*

 

[Pickman's model]

The problem with this is analysis is that it is precisely one of those blights you mention - the gangs - who are behind most of this disorder, most of the crime, and far more attacks on the youth / the community than the OB (who by the way are not "blatantly racist, brutal") are.

Yes, Tottenham is very poor and the life chances of those who are raised there will be worse than most other places in the country, but we should not pretend that the vast majority of people who live and grew up there did this, or that the people who did do this have compelling reasons for doing so - any more than they have compelling reasons when they rob, stab, rape, shoot and kill other poor kids.

out of curiosity how do you know the people who 'did this' are rapists and murderers?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

You are utterly, totally wrong, and it shows your stunning ignorance of this area (as well as your utterly worthless Tory politics).
Tottenham has some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country. To grow up here is to grow up without hope, without jobs or prosperity, in a community scarred by crime, drugs,gangs and despair, with a blatantly racist, brutal local OB, into disfunctional, impoverished families, with a feeling that gets stronger every day that no-one gives a shit about you, and that this society offers you nothing.
Sooner or later, that social pressure creates a breaking point - and this was it.
you EVER actually been to Tottenham, Giles? thought not. So please do not make these condescending assumptions about that community.

I think we have to be careful not to over-sell it. There are plenty of glimmers of hope in Tottenham - from jobs nearby in Enfield and Walthamstow to self orgasnised consumer co-ops in Broadwater Farm and strong and well organised residents and tenants associations in many areas, and lets face it fairly active and well supported church and other community groups.

Tottenham is not a wasteland without hope - that''s not to deny the very real and widespread poverty (some of the worst in the country) and crime - but lets not do it down too much.

Your essential point is correct however, and I think the blame for this can be laid squarely at the door of the local police, who often quite frankly hold the local populace in contempt.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I don't "do" class identification, I refuse to be shoehorned into a little socio-demographic tickbox. I am me, and that's all there is to it.

*shrug*

In capitalist Britain class identifies you

 

[DrRingDing]

I don't "do" class identification, I refuse to be shoehorned into a little socio-demographic tickbox. I am me, and that's all there is to it.

*shrug*

Middle Class it is.

 

[faux pas]

You are utterly, totally wrong, and it shows your stunning ignorance of this area (as well as your utterly worthless Tory politics).
Tottenham has some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country. To grow up here is to grow up without hope, without jobs or prosperity, in a community scarred by crime, drugs,gangs and despair, with a blatantly racist, brutal local OB, into disfunctional, impoverished families, with a feeling that gets stronger every day that no-one gives a shit about you, and that this society offers you nothing.
Sooner or later, that social pressure creates a breaking point - and this was it.
you EVER actually been to Tottenham, Giles? thought not. So please do not make these condescending assumptions about that community.

I've lived in Tottenham and Edmonton most of my life and you're talking a load of bollocks!

'Nope hope', 'despair', 'scarred'! Maybe you got Tottenham mixed up with Afghanistan.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I wonder where they live then because I'm not aware of any 'slums' in London.

Quantify "slum".

In terms of housing quality, I can think of dozens of estates just local to me where the quality of housing is lower than the sort of place my parents were moved from in the '60s as part of the "slum clearances" in Southwark and Lambeth. Having an inside bog doesn't mean you don't live in a slum, it just means you live in a slum that has inside bogs.

 

[Spymaster]

you seem to have more experience of this than i would have thought.

if it was looters though it is interesting that wood green didn't go up in flames.

The looters were spread too thinly over the course of the evening. You can't expect them to respond to every opportunity immediately. Most of them had to decide whether to loot Dalston, or travel south to Bricky, and given the lack of available transport infrastructure they should be commended for their speedy response to both situations. Their resources were stretched to breaking point but they still coped. I think you're being unfair in raising the issue of the non-burning of Wood Green.