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Kicking Off In Tottenham

articul8 said:
Politics can work at different levels - it's only natural that for a generation that has been told that happiness lies on acquisition of more and more consumer goods - whilst at the same time deprived of the resources to live out this capitalist utopia - to respond by taking what's denied to them.
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Because of course you can't expect people to think beyond their desire for flashy trainers, gold jewellry and mobile phones, can you? Not their fault, it's the adverts that made them do it!

Giles..
 
SpineyNorman said:
So if I was in the pub with you and a bloke came along and told us he had some invisible, intangible gold for sale and you took your wallet out to buy some, prompting me to call you a fucking idiot, would that be me throwing "abuse at people I don't agree with" too? Only that's on pretty much the same level as what you did.

I mean, this is essentially the story you fell for: "there was an armed, dangerous gangster in a taxi - he tried to shoot a brave, armed copper but fortunately the bullet lodged in his radio without him noticing, despite the fucking massive bruise he would inevitably have received as a consequence, which saved his life. So they were forced to shoot him in the face, twice, while he was on the ground".

You've basically claimed a man who has been executed without trial deserved it, despite the fact he didn't actually fire a single bullet. Where I come from that's considered a bit of a cunt's trick. That's not me abusing you because we disagree - that's me calling you a cunt because you're a cunt.
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You know what worries me, Norm? That whole "shot twice in the face schtick. S.O.P. is for the suspect to be restrained face-down, so a double-tap to the face is only going to be possible if the guy had fallen to the floor, or was being restrained incorrectly.
 
treelover said:
Lots of projecting going on here, imo, i'm quite sure 10 year olds to 14 year olds have no political or otherwise consciousness of the cutting of bankers getting bigger bonuses, of Thatcher and neo-liberalism, etc, it was opportunism, look at what they looted: games, tv's, clothes, very few political locations, job centres, etc were attacked, it wasn't Brixton or Toxteth, it was the above kids but also organised criminal and volent gangs out to get what they could. There is plenty for young people to be angry about it in London and indeed the Uk, but these people weren't part of that.

the initial protest outside the Police station was a different case..
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How is opportunist behaviour not political? Not revealing? There's a pointlessness to drawing a line one side of which can be called political and one side non-political. All this is social. How is the anger expressed at how the police behave not social? It's pretty easy to reduce this down to good or bad (do you support people being made homless? Do you support cops killing people and lying?)- but that's to totally ignore the underlying dynamics here. It's pointless acting as a riot quality control officer - it's not pointless to try and see what's going on beneath the surface.
 
of course, some of the looters had other motivations, such as an awareness of unfairness and inequality,but i would argue the majority of looters were opportunists..
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Should he return, he'd probably say something deeply stupid which so reeked of elitist arrogance as to provoke a small but statistically significant number of hiterto peaceful Londoners into violent insurrection.
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This isn't "insurrection".

That would suggest a purposeful uprising against government or authority. This is just a bunch of cunts nicking shit.
 
treelover said:
apparently charity shops were looted, ffs...
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The looting is one thing - the uninsured working class people made homeless and losing what little they had left by the "radical" actions of a few cunts is worse.

Big question is: did this Duggan guy really fire at the cops before he was shot?
 
Giles said:
Because of course you can't expect people to think beyond their desire for flashy trainers, gold jewellry and mobile phones, can you? Not their fault, it's the adverts that made them do it!

Giles..
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The world looks much simpler in black and white. Eh, Giles?
 
'I know some of the kids and men who were out looting last night. Believe it or not they're part of an alternative culture! They're the unemployable underclass which society has created. I'm not an apologist for them; they're just gangsters and thieves but we need to understand why they're doing this and how they're doing this in order to stop it. Basically they grew up in rough areas where the education they get is poor. The only people they see succeeding in their areas are the drug dealers and thieves, so that's what the young men aspire to. Their values are different from those of most of society; they believe they have the right to take what they want, be it a woman or a car or a 'phone. They see affluence and success and they aspire to it.'

posted on CIF
 
rorymac said:
Go fuck yourself you conservative dork !
Just fuck off !!
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How persuasive. Never voted tory in my life.

This is about heavy looting, not revolution. I have immense sympathy for the Mark Duggan's family but all this has nothing to do with solidarity with said family.
 
'I would strongly dispute that a person looting is a thief. '

Right, i will send some of the thugs round to your gaff then...
 
SpineyNorman said:
I'll bet you £10 to the server fund that 1) the OB weren't fired on and 2) he was at the very least no direct threat to the lives of any police when he was shot. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is on this. And I'm fucking positive that the version I believe is a damn site more plausible than the magic radio stopping a bullet killing a copper without him even feeling it - despite the radio shaped bruise and probable broken bones.
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Not sure about broken bones. Transmitting the impact of a single bullet over the surface area of a police radio pack would give you a stonker of a bruise, but unless you had osteoporosis, is shouldn't break any bone thicker that your little finger.
 
treelover said:
'I know some of the kids and men who were out looting last night. Believe it or not they're part of an alternative culture! They're the unemployable underclass which society has created. I'm not an apologist for them; they're just gangsters and thieves but we need to understand why they're doing this and how they're doing this in order to stop it. Basically they grew up in rough areas where the education they get is poor. The only people they see succeeding in their areas are the drug dealers and thieves, so that's what the young men aspire to. Their values are different from those of most of society; they believe they have the right to take what they want, be it a woman or a car or a 'phone. They see affluence and success and they aspire to it.'

posted on CIF
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Any serious pro-working class movement (just using that term as it's now trad) will, of course, have to come up with some answers to the anti-social behaviour and gangsterism that goes on in our communities - and that we've seen over the last two nights, and what drives it. As an absolute priority in fact. To do that we have to understand what it is and what produces it. That's horrible hard work, and distasteful as it may be, that means not writing whole loads of people off.
 
treelover said:
'I would strongly dispute that a person looting is a thief. '

Right, i will send some of the thugs round to your gaff then...
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I don't think you can make as black and white as saying looters are thieves, or criminals or whatever. That implies that they would act that way outside exceptional circumstances which I don't think the vast majority would.
 
Chrispeptide said:
And that makes it all OK does it? Because they can't afford by legitimate means the latest Panasonic 52" widescreen 3D TV, or the latest Nike trainers it's OK to go out and nick them and then burn down the store!
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Hmmm, you seem to be rather too well-informed about what's been stolen, Mr. Peptide.

Is there something you'd like to tell us?
 
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