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Kicking Off In Tottenham

Numerous reports in the Guardian point to two incidents that sparked this off. The first, the shooting that led to a demonstration and then the police kicking the shit out of a 16 year old girl which seems to have sparked the riot. We don't know the real story of the shooting yet but the second incident of the police going in heavy and beating up a girl rings true. If so, the cops got a response to their brutality that they weren't expecting.
 
I think in light of recent events, the met has more to worry about than 'funding'. Wouldn't surprise me if there's a restructuring of the Met due to all the corruption scandals.
 
ViolentPanda said:
1) H & K MP5 carbine uses the same standard 9mm round as any 9mm pistol (including the pistols used by police). It makes good logistic sense.
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The H&K carbines they use aren't always 9mm actually and even then the caliber of the round doesn't mean the effect is the same as a pistol.

You're razor-sharp, aren't you?
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I think you're clutching at straws tbh... Yes there is probably less than a 1% chance the police somehow accidentally shot themselves whilst then proceeding to fire two well aimed shots into a guy's head it would seem much more logical that perhaps the known gangster, with a gun, fired at the police before being shot in the head.
 
dylans said:
Numerous reports in the Guardian point to two incidents that sparked this off. The first, the shooting that led to a demonstration and then the police kicking the shit out of a 16 year old girl which seems to have sparked the riot. We don't know the real story of the shooting yet but the second incident of the police going in heavy and beating up a girl rings true. If so, the cops got a response to their brutality that they weren't expecting.
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I think that the fact of the young girl being beaten by the cops appears to be true, even the MoS is reporting that she was set upon by about 15 officers with batons and shields, with some questions over whether she threw something as she approached them.
 
pinkmonkey said:
AFAIKR there are none of those in the High Road. It's a mixture of Turkish Grocers, hardware etc, nearly all small local businesses.

Quite sad I guess but a middle aged woman I know locally was so overjoyed that they opened an Asda near Bruce Grove station. (Only about a month ago). She said to me, 'they must think that Tottenham is ok now, I'm so pleased we're getting an Asda, it means that we've really become respectable now.'

Didn't last long did it?
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I remember people saying the same about Brixton when McDonalds came to town.
 
We don't know the real story of the shooting yet but the second incident of the police going in heavy and beating up a girl rings true.
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lighterthief said:
Does it? Have you got a source for the report of this incident?
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The BBC interviewed someone early on who described it. Rings true to me as well.

No justification for riots and looting IMO. But assuming true, deffo a direct cause of situation getting out of hand and a clear mistake.

Listen to the guy speak, sounds like an honest account to me.

Recording of BBC news interviewing a guy on the street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcwUyZ68C0k&feature=player_embedded

Pathetic from the beeb that they don't continue to report this and try to get to the bottom of it
 
Dowie said:
The H&K carbines they use aren't always 9mm actually and even then the caliber of the round doesn't mean the effect is the same as a pistol.
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H & K make carbines in a number of calibres, including 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO.

However, the police are issued ONLY with 9mm H & K MP5 carbines, just as they're only issued with 9mm Glock 17 pistols. The only "non-standard" firearms held by the Met are scoped rifles in 7.62/.308 and (allegedly) .50 Browning.

As for "effect", the only difference between a 9mm round fired from a carbine over a 9mm round fired from a pistol will be improved accuracy via the longer barrel length. The only variable would be if substantially-different rounds were used.

Guess what, the Met uses the same 9mm rounds for both weapons. Same powder charge, same bullet weight, the lot.

I think you're clutching at straws tbh... Yes there is probably less than a 1% chance the police somehow accidentally shot themselves whilst then proceeding to fire two well aimed shots into a guy's head it would seem much more logical that perhaps the known gangster, with a gun, fired at the police before being shot in the head.
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I'm not trying to make a case, I'm merely pointing out that your "logical deductions" are actually assumptions on your part, dressed up to resemble informed comment.
 
Dowie said:
The H&K carbines they use aren't always 9mm actually and even then the caliber of the round doesn't mean the effect is the same as a pistol.

I think you're clutching at straws tbh... Yes there is probably less than a 1% chance the police somehow accidentally shot themselves whilst then proceeding to fire two well aimed shots into a guy's head it would seem much more logical that perhaps the known gangster, with a gun, fired at the police before being shot in the head.
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Frankly the whole thing about the gun/bullet in radio stinks of the brown stuff - I can smell it from here. It might be true, but then again I might find a £50 note on the way to the bus stop. Anyone with half a brain will have taken it with a pinch of salt but I suppose it helps confirm your prejudices so please carry on. I'll let you know how I get on with the £50 when I go to town tomorrow morning.
 
No justification for riots and looting IMO. But assuming true, deffo a direct cause of situation getting out of hand and a clear mistake.
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Course it is. A riot is an act of collective rage and frustration, They are rarely considered or thought out and often self destructive but as Martin Luther King said, " A riot is the voice of the unheard" and I for one am not going to join in with the sanctimonious "condemnations" that we will hear all over the media. The police provoked this and they got a response. Good. We need more
 
oh dear, is it kicking off in brixton? i've seen a couple of pics on twitter. something's certainly going on
 
Dowie said:
The H&K carbines they use aren't always 9mm actually and even then the caliber of the round doesn't mean the effect is the same as a pistol.

I think you're clutching at straws tbh... Yes there is probably less than a 1% chance the police somehow accidentally shot themselves whilst then proceeding to fire two well aimed shots into a guy's head it would seem much more logical that perhaps the known gangster, with a gun, fired at the police before being shot in the head.
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Known Gangster? He's a known offender but A quick Google shows when he is described by a newspaper as a gangster or known gangster it is surrounded by quotation marks. When he is described as a suspected Gangster their are no quotation marks. I think this is probably significant. His cousin was recently killed and words used to describe him by the family and such quoted include "down" and "paranoid". Some accounts say he was off to get revenge for his cousin and that he is part of a gang. This may be true but if someone is paranoid and possibly depressed there are other reasons he may of been carrying the gun.
 
dylans said:
Course it is. A riot is an act of collective rage and frustration, They are rarely considered or thought out and often self destructive but as Martin Luther King said, " A riot is the voice of the unheard" and I for one am not going to join in with the sanctimonious "condemnations" that we will hear all over the media. The police provoked this and they got a response. Good. We need more
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Send us your address, we can organise a mobile riot squad for you.
 
CNT36 said:
Known Gangster? He's a known offender but A quick Google shows when he is described by a newspaper as a gangster or known gangster it is surrounded by quotation marks. When he is described as a suspected Gangster their are no quotation marks. I think this is probably significant. His cousin was recently killed and words used to describe him by the family and such quoted include "down" and "paranoid". Some accounts say he was off to get revenge for his cousin and that he is part of a gang. This may be true but if someone is paranoid and possibly depressed there are other reasons he may of been carrying the gun.
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It's that they shot him in the face under arrest. That's the rumour.
 
The rioters are just low-lifes on the make.

Some bad boy getting shot by the cops "causes" people to have to go out, set their own neighbourhood on fire and loot shops? What a laugh......

Giles..
 
Giles said:
The rioters are just low-lifes on the make.

Some bad boy getting shot by the cops "causes" people to have to go out, set their own neighbourhood on fire and loot shops? What a laugh......

Giles..
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This is definately a time of polarisation. So watch yer mouth.
 
Giles, why is it that people who propose euthanasia as a social solution never use it themselves?

Go on, be obliging for once...
 
How can it be justifiable for the homes and businesses of innocent people to be destroyed?

Explain it to me.
 
TopCat said:
This is definately a time of polarisation. So watch yer mouth.
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A "time of polarisation"? What does that mean, then?

A bunch of low-lifes have succeeded in trashing their own neighbourhood. Win! Still, at least a lucky few got some free trainers and a big telly out of it.

Giles..
 
CNT36 said:
Known Gangster? He's a known offender but A quick Google shows when he is described by a newspaper as a gangster or known gangster it is surrounded by quotation marks. When he is described as a suspected Gangster their are no quotation marks. I think this is probably significant. His cousin was recently killed and words used to describe him by the family and such quoted include "down" and "paranoid". Some accounts say he was off to get revenge for his cousin and that he is part of a gang. This may be true but if someone is paranoid and possibly depressed there are other reasons he may of been carrying the gun.
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Sorry I should have perhaps said 'alleged gangster'. Supposedly 'Starrish mark' from the 'Man Dem' gang. Allegedly on the way to seek revenge for the killing of his cousin and intercepted by police from operation trident. Would certainly explain why the family members are in disbelief - could presume that perhaps he doesn't carry a gun normally but might have acquired one for this alleged revenge attack he was purportedly on his way to carry out. Presumably some tout or other tipped off the police and prompted this operation.

(yes and before someone quotes me several times I am making lots of assumptions here - though I'd also wager that I'm likely not far off the mark.)
 
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