Keir Starmer's time is up

[JTG]

'Should be miles ahead' sounds a bit familiar.

I don't know it's that simple tbh. They're going to need a bit more than the appearance of competence.

It's not that simple, no. Not with the culture wars in full flow and the Tories' 40% doing well enough that they're not going to shift any time soon.

Corbyn's vision of selling an alternative vision got some traction (and I understand not enough) for a period and honestly, given the above, I don't see how the approach of greater managerial competence being tried now is any more likely to succeed.

 

[ska invita]

The vaccine programme has undoubtedly helped Johnson in the polls.

About 1pc tbh. 2pc tops

 

[teqniq]

The vaccine programme has undoubtedly helped Johnson in the polls.

For which he deserves zero credit.

 

[JTG]

I can't remember who said it but I've heard from the nationalisation programme they might keep trains only

They were on about "radical insourcing" the other day

 

[JTG]

the thing is lets say he runs in the next election on corbyns manifesto or near enough, and has a good go at selling it via the media, draped in flags or whatever
would that be enough to win labour activists back? only in a limited way i think

particularly the suspension of left activists + reinstatement and rewarding of the saboteurs is something i cant forgive
like most of us im not in a swing seat (so the meaning of our votes is just cryptic message sending) and i wont vote labour under starmer no matter what happens next. Short of some kind of deep justice post Forde Inquiry, what has happened so far is unforgivable to me.

im not a member nor an activist, but if i were i couldn't humiliate myself to work for these people, whatever the manifesto - and from what I can tell lots of members feel the same way.
they've chosen their approach: fuck the members, fuck party democracy, fuck even any pipedream to be a community party. well then i expect there'll be a long and stubborn fuck you right back.

its clear he's frightened of the wider public and distrustful of the membership so there is no way his attitude is going to change between here and the next election. maybe he might print up some more posters of himself.

so all that is to come is more of the same: triangulate or die! who doesnt dare wins! or not, as reality will most likely prove.


*that said i appreciate that people often have short memories, labour party is built on compromise on top of compromise, and 4 years is a long time in politics, so things may yet change in some unforseen way. i see no reason to feel positive though

Yeah, it's been made perfectly plain to a great many members/ex-members that they're not welcome and nor are their politics. People who sucked it up to get the likes of Rosie Duffield elected aren't going out to do it again in a hurry. There may be targeted efforts to campaign for left candidates (can imagine Coventry South with a wafer thin majority would see plenty of willing workers for example) but they're going to pick and choose where they go. To an extent this was happening already - I met people campaigning in Filton & Bradley Stoke who refused point blank to campaign for their own MP Darren Jones in Bristol NW for example.

 

[ska invita]

The Forde related thing is impossible to swallow - hes the Director of Prosecutions ffs, thats his whole shtick - serving justice. Even on his own preferred platform he is showing corruption and contempt. Its sickening

 

[JTG]

The Forde related thing really stings hard - hes the Director of Prosecutions ffs, thats his whole shtick - serving justice. Even on his own preferred platform he is showing corruption and contempt. Its sickening

Well... you don't get to be DPP unless you're serving a certain type of justice

 

[The39thStep]

For which he deserves zero credit.

I suppose though its often a case about who takes the credit or who gives the credit rather than deserving it

 

[ska invita]

Well... you don't get to be DPP unless you're serving a certain type of justice

Sure, i just don't understand the internal politics of this - surely you can throw some no marks like Emilie Oldknow in the bin and at least pretend to draw a line under it. Reinstating her before the Forde inquiry comes back is just sticking two fingers up at everyone watching on in disgust. Its not even Machiavellian savvy.

I just hope there's some headway to be made in all the internal legal battles launched over this

 

[JTG]

Sure, i just don't understand the internal politics of this - surely you can throw some no marks like Emilie Oldknow in the bin and at least pretend to draw a line under it. Reinstating her before the Forde inquiry comes back is just sticking two fingers up at everyone watching on in disgust. Its not even Machiavellian savvy.

I just hope there's some headway to be made in all the internal legal battles launched over this

I do wonder how much he's in thrall to the extreme centre in all of this - willingly no doubt, but remember he's only been an MP for less than six years and I'm not sure how battle worn he is wrt to internal Labour politics given he was previously dedicating himself to his legal career.

We all make comparisons to Blair and he sidelined the left for sure but also didn't alienate them entirely. I'm minded of that speech he made when he referenced Dennis Skinner and the fact that "we don't agree on much but we both hate the Tories". This approach doesn't seem to even allow for that amount of concessionary ruffling of the hair of the party's left wing

 

[Chz]

"Keir Starmer's time is up" - wrong. The clock has not even started. Give him a chance.

You know, when he started that was my thought.
But now? He's frankly done very little, and the little that he has done gives me cause for worry. Much as I thought Corbyn was utterly useless as a leader, at least his heart was in the right place (or even existed) and the policies were there. Kier's policy thus far seems to be "Tory Lite, perhaps with less cronyism". The one thing where he's continued Corbyn-era policy has been to be completely useless at actually being the Opposition. And I don't mean scoring useless brownie points in PMQs, but actually opposing what the government is bloody well doing! He's a huge disappointment thus far, and really quite worrying that Labour can't find anyone better.

 

[ska invita]

and really quite worrying that Labour can't find anyone better.

I wonder why that is exactly.
Possible reasons i can think of include:
Labour has for years been the epitomy of the Professional Middle Class party and has attracted and elevated those kinds of people
Deliberate attempt to choke off grassroots democracy
I forget the mechanics but Blair supposedly drew the drawbridge up around his sofa which further insulated the LP HQ from the real word
Boomerism / generational divide
?

Some commentators have been saying for a while there is a collapse in the quality of the professional political class - when you look at the current cabinet its hard to argue, though I don't now how true all that kind of thing is. Sounds like a lament that 'Oxbridge isn't what it used to be at turning out good solid chaps, even the pinkos' IYNWIM. In which case, good.

Notable how many old lags there were around Corbyn - a different generation

 

[ska invita]

I'm minded of that speech he made when he referenced Dennis Skinner and the fact that "we don't agree on much but we both hate the Tories".

Steady on, our focus group tells us that the Tories are quite well liked actually.

 

[redsquirrel]

Do you think that the Labour Party are really going to fight the next election on Corbyns manifesto or near enough?

I don't and never did but some on here (eg fakeplasticgirl), and wider (Mason), argued for Starmer on the basis of a change in (a more electable) personality and that the policy would not shift significantly. How truly they held that belief only they can say.

 

[The39thStep]

Masons take was the most bizarre thing I have seen since his .

I'm voting Labour to stop Brexit and send MEPs to Brussels who will fight austerity.

.

 

[redsquirrel]

Masons take was the most bizarre thing I have seen since his . .

We just don't understand The39thStep !

 

[The39thStep]

We just don't understand The39thStep !

True I never really grasped Kondratiev wave theory tbh

 

[Humberto]

Parties riven with infighting don't win do they? Dividing/purging is a sure way to lose support because it is going to piss off lots of potential supporters, hamper the party moving forward and look chaotic and otherwise shit to the floating voters they need. Starmer makes rash, bad calls to chase headlines. The different political strands in the Labour Party can't be that far apart that a decent capable leader couldn't have them just about pulling in the same direction.

 

[toblerone3]

He's been gifted an open goal with the government's catastrophic handling of the Covid crisis and he's hoofed it into his own net. He's barely had an interesting thing to say about, well, anything. He's a total fucking disaster. Labour should be miles ahead in the polls and instead they're struggling to stay on a par with a spectacularly incompetent government who are - quite literally - responsible for the unnecessary deaths of thousands of people.

Just as a matter of interest what do you think would've been a good way of handling the Covid crisis? ....and who were the people in the British political scene who were consistently calling for for these strategies?

 

[editor]

Just as a matter of interest what do you think would've been a good way of handling the Covid crisis?

That's been discussed in depth on other threads, but with the UK having the highest death rate in the world, we've clearly done the shittiest possible job of handling the crisis. And what has Starmer done to call the government to account over the preventable deaths of tens of thousands of people? This should be the moment where the opposition rises up and rips into the government and fights for the people.

And he's done, what, exactly?

 

[toblerone3]

It's not that simple, no. Not with the culture wars in full flow and the Tories' 40% doing well enough that they're not going to shift any time soon.

Corbyn's vision of selling an alternative vision got some traction (and I understand not enough) for a period and honestly, given the a bove, I don't see how the approach of greater managerial competence being tried now is any more likely to succeed.

I think you're right managerial competence is not enought. Starmer needs to develop some big and radical ideas in the next 12-18 months. Not sure if there was much capital to be made out of attacking the government's mishandling of COVID though.

 

[toblerone3]

This should be the moment where the opposition rises up and rips into the government and fights for the people.

Fights for the people to be able to do what exactly? I don't think there is very much political capital to be made from the government's mishandling of COVID. If there's a specific thing that needs to be done now and the government is not doing it, yes then he should fight for it. But what is that thing?

 

[The39thStep]

Parties riven with infighting don't win do they? Dividing/purging is a sure way to lose support because it is going to piss off lots of potential supporters, hamper the party moving forward and look chaotic and otherwise shit to the floating voters they need. Starmer makes rash, bad calls to chase headlines. The different political strands in the Labour Party can't be that far apart that a decent capable leader couldn't have them just about pulling in the same direction.

Didnt seem to affect Johnson and the Tories when they purged the Remainers tbh

 

[editor]

Fights for the people to be able to do what exactly? I don't think there is very much political capital to be made from the government's mishandling of COVID. If there's a specific thing that needs to be done now and the government is not doing it, yes then he should fight for it. But what is that thing?

If you can't see anything that the opposition party could and should have been doing against the government's disastrous covid policies in the last year, then I'm not minded to list them all here, sorry,

 

[toblerone3]

If you can't see anything that the opposition party could and should have been doing against the government's disastrous covid policies in the last year, then I'm not minded to list them all here, sorry,

Dont need to go back over the history of the past year or make a list. But what is the top one thing that the government is not doing that it should be doing right now?

 

[Humberto]

Didnt seem to affect Johnson and the Tories when they purged the Remainers tbh

Yes fair enough, though PLP was undermining Corbyn to some extent.

 

[The39thStep]

Yes fair enough, though PLP was undermining Corbyn to some extent.

To some extent? That was their full time job imo.

 

[editor]

And what the fuckety fuck is this Trump-like horseshit?

The leaked strategy document, seen by the Guardian, advised Labour to make “use of the [union] flag, veterans [and] dressing smartly” as part of a rebranding to help it win back the trust of disillusioned voters. It also reveals that voters could not describe what or who Labour stands for.

Labour defends new strategy to focus on patriotism and union flag

Leftwing MPs say plan risks alienating young and BAME voters and lacks ambition and authenticity

www.theguardian.com

 

[JTG]

To some extent? That was their full time job imo.

They'd literally already attempted to depose him by this stage when Labour were 4/5 points behind in the polls - end of June 2016, nine months into Corbyn's leadership. Gap was bigger by the time the contest was concluded largely because May had become PM and everyone could see Labour were divided

 

[JTG]

Didnt seem to affect Johnson and the Tories when they purged the Remainers tbh

They play politics on easy mode, same rules do not apply