Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
He hates us. We hate him…
Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
That makes them sound too organised and coherent
ska invita
back on the other side
Much the same position they were in before they went into coalition with the Tories and let austerity rip
(eta brogdale made same point...apols)
No. But pretty sure there's a lot more budget shambling still to come.
andysays
Love and solidarity
An omnibushambles perhaps.
I'm curious to know how much money this raising the bus fare cap is actually going to save.
I suspect (without any real knowledge, TBH) it's another case of a small financial gain for a substantial political cost.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
The £3 cap will cost £151 Million, so less than £80m??
Given the negligible sums, this is purely another winter fuel allowance style punishment beating of the poor that saves next to nothing.
I assume the rationale is that it’s a symbolic measure designed to ‘ reassure the markets’ that Labour is taking the ‘tough decisions’. Wankers
Over £1 billion to boost bus services across the country as bus fares capped at £3
The £3 fare cap will keep bus travel affordable while ensuring it is fair to taxpayers.
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andysays
Love and solidarity
The £3 cap will cost £151 Million, so less than £80m??
Given the negligible sums, this is purely another winter fuel allowance style punishment beating of the poor that saves next to nothing.
I assume the rationale is that it’s a symbolic measure designed to ‘ reassure the markets’ that Labour is taking the ‘tough decisions’. Wankers
Over £1 billion to boost bus services across the country as bus fares capped at £3
The £3 fare cap will keep bus travel affordable while ensuring it is fair to taxpayers.www.gov.uk
That's what I suspected.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
It is just so stupid. If they'd have made it £2.50, while still a big hike in price, it wouldn't have seemed quite so unfair given the £2 has been static for quite a few years. Politically wouldn't have had much impact. But it just speaks volumes about their priorities and instincts.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They are unashamedly pro-business. And to be pro-business you have to be anti-worker
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Or, given the trivial sums involved, they could have just left it alone on the basis that it’s popular, directly helps the poorest and is a green measure that they are purportedly going to build the economy around.
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
That is essentially it. There is no good reason to do this, it’s a symbolic sacrifice to the markets and rich.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
Oh of course. It's just that they can't even be wankers in a politically astute way.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
You have to wonder as well, if this has fuck all to do with the actual costs and policy and more to do with punishing Louise Haigh who has perhaps been perceived as a more left leaning minister.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The £3 cap will cost £151 Million, so less than £80m??
Given the negligible sums, this is purely another winter fuel allowance style punishment beating of the poor that saves next to nothing.
I assume the rationale is that it’s a symbolic measure designed to ‘ reassure the markets’ that Labour is taking the ‘tough decisions’. Wankers
Over £1 billion to boost bus services across the country as bus fares capped at £3
The £3 fare cap will keep bus travel affordable while ensuring it is fair to taxpayers.
Keep the bus fare cap, but means test bus passes for pensioners. Lots of old people are fucking minted and we should stop giving them free shit.
teqniq
DisMembered
A quick search reveals you may very well have something there:
Embattled transport secretary’s Budget victory prevented bus fare rises of up to 650%
Details have emerged over how transport secretary Louise Haigh’s intervention ensured a new cap in bus fares would feature in the Budget
www.independent.co.uk
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
But such quid pro quo calls merely reaffirm the "black hole" myth. I don't see any benefit in playing their zero sum games when really we should be demanding free travel for all on all public transport.
Furthermore, any costly means testing scheme would be yet another chip away at the foundations of universalism.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Could just link it to pension credit, same as the winter fuel thing.
This kind of 'universalism' is nothing of the sort. I don't get a free bus pass.
The two pound bus fare cap on the other hand is universal but tilts strongly towards helping working people. There are lots of 'universal' things we do that tilt the other way, disproportionately helping people who don't need it and fucking off those who do.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Like they're doing with the winter fuel allowance, you mean...
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yep. Which I'm on record as being in favour of.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Means testing doesn't work because - as we know from the winter fuel cut - people don't claim what they are entitled to.
Any 'savings' accrued from means testing bus passes would need to be administered by the state and given the paltry sums involved, administration of means testing would wipe out any 'savings' derived from making rich pensioners (who probably don't use the bus anyway) pay the fare.
But as Brogdale says all of this type of 'how do we fill the 'black hole'' debate obscures the main issue. This is a punishment beating of the poor to show the market that Labour can be trusted to apply the boot when the market demands it.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, i agree that freedom passes are an age-defined, qualified "universalism" and that as a younger person you don't get a free bus pass. But I've always thought the way to achieve greater universalism is through solidarity and not engaging the zero-sum discourse of the consolidator state.
From my (family/friends/community) experience, if the bus passes were means tested/linked to Pension credit, many of those losing the opportunity would be little affected as they tend to be car-based. But, as with any means-testing/opting in schemes the greater concern would be those eligible who for whatever reasons don't take up the benefit.
Added to which I just think that we should be encouraging wide scale bus/public transport use and demanding that it is free for everyone.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
theatrical grandstanding over the fiscal equivalent of chump change.
averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com
'We're told £1bn is being invested to make "better bus services". This will guarantee that fares "remain affordable" while being "fair to the taxpayer". As if bus users and "taxpayers" are two discrete entities.'
just to be extra maddening the party tries to draw distinction between go getting tax payers and people who take the bus. Fuck off. Might as well come on the tele and personally slag me off by name
The Political Cost of a Peppercorn Saving
Here's a quiz. Name one policy brought in by the Conservatives that tangibly improved the lives of the poorest people. It's difficult consid...
averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com
'We're told £1bn is being invested to make "better bus services". This will guarantee that fares "remain affordable" while being "fair to the taxpayer". As if bus users and "taxpayers" are two discrete entities.'
just to be extra maddening the party tries to draw distinction between go getting tax payers and people who take the bus. Fuck off. Might as well come on the tele and personally slag me off by name
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Like all needless, neoliberal "savings" made by the consolidator state, any watering down of bus fare affordability/freedom passes will, of course, have untold, unforeseen consequences. Some that spring to mind include reduced ability to access increasingly centralised health care services, inability to seek work, care for grandchildren/dependents etc. undertake voluntary work. Not to mention the impact that removal would have of the viability of many bus services.theatrical grandstanding over the fiscal equivalent of chump change.
The Political Cost of a Peppercorn Saving
Here's a quiz. Name one policy brought in by the Conservatives that tangibly improved the lives of the poorest people. It's difficult consid...
'We're told £1bn is being invested to make "better bus services". This will guarantee that fares "remain affordable" while being "fair to the taxpayer". As if bus users and "taxpayers" are two discrete entities.'
just to be extra maddening the party tries to draw distinction between go getting tax payers and people who take the bus. Fuck off. Might as well come on the tele and personally slag me off by name
andysays
Love and solidarity
Sorry, can you clarify, are you saying you're in favour of means testing the winter fuel allowance as well?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yes. Any benefit that is not universal should be means tested, not distributed arbitrarily.
The current system is a colossal fuck you to poor workers and poor families. See also; triple-locked pensions but no triple-locked wages or any other benefits.
It has nothing at all to do with fairness and everything to do with chasing old people's votes.
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