Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes. I’m not sure a narrow lead for Labour - given the absolute state of the Government - is a cause for dancing in the street.
The abject Tory response to the pandemic, the near million jobs lost, the coming end of furlough, the test and trace farce etc etc surely create the conditions for a 20 point Labour lead? Put another way, where would Starmer and co be if the government was mildly competent?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Most of the Labour cllrs round here are either Progress, or inclined that way, so I wouldn't be voting for them anyway, the dog-fucking shitcunts.
Absolutely correct, but continuing Johnson uselessness is what could (possibly!) help Starmer's election prospects further, and for longer, than a lot of people posting on this thread think (or assume).
I'm no Starmer fan, at all, but I think some posters here risk underestimating the appearance of competence factor (with a bit of actual, too) -- I mean in electoral prospects terms only ........
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
While I’d imagine he won’t be shedding many tears for Webbe (who let’s remember has only been charged at this point and states she is innocent) I’m not clear as to why this is a ‘lucky break’ for Starmer, unless you think he’s going to withdraw the whip using this court case as the pretext?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Something that isn't reflected in the thread is the marked lack of appetite of traditional Tory voters for Johnson - they dont like him, never have, and they certainly don't trust him - they voted for him in 2019 with gritted teeth because they so loathed Corbyn.
These people may or may not be susceptable to Starmers charms, but they aren't going to be 'forced' into Johnson's arms by the prospect of the Ogre Starmer - for them he's safe, decent enough, and probably reasonably competent.
Elections aren't just about who votes for you, it's also about who isn't exercised enough to vote for your opponent.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
AFAIK, Starmer has not yet decided whether or not to withdraw the whip, but the opportunity to discredit another Corbyn loyalist must be mighty tempting.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so she's been charged with harassment
she's up in court soon
she may well be convicted
and you think that withdrawing the whip will be the bit that discredits her?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
like I said...another lucky break for Starmer.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
she seems to have discredited herself, tbh. starmer may withdraw the whip. he may not. but his actions won't discredit her more than she's already done.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, I should have said that Starmer may well capitalise on her discrediting herself.
I suggest it's way too early to predict what will happen with Claudia Webbe MP.
One scenario is that she is tried and found not guilty. In that case, it's likely that will be the end of it; and any withdrawal of the whip in the meantime will leave the Labour leadership looking rather silly. I doubt very much they will fall into that trap.
On the other end of the spectrum, if she is tried, convicted and imprisoned (and that's highly speculative, given that we don't know of what she is liable to be accused) then it's pretty much guaranteed that the whip will be withdrawn. She may also be subject to a recall petition under the Recall of MPs Act 2015. You may remember that this was what unseated Fiona Onasanya in 2019.
But the bottom line is, at this point, we don't know.
One scenario is that she is tried and found not guilty. In that case, it's likely that will be the end of it; and any withdrawal of the whip in the meantime will leave the Labour leadership looking rather silly. I doubt very much they will fall into that trap.
On the other end of the spectrum, if she is tried, convicted and imprisoned (and that's highly speculative, given that we don't know of what she is liable to be accused) then it's pretty much guaranteed that the whip will be withdrawn. She may also be subject to a recall petition under the Recall of MPs Act 2015. You may remember that this was what unseated Fiona Onasanya in 2019.
But the bottom line is, at this point, we don't know.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
It's a bit of a turn-around, whatever's been happening. It's been a bit of an open secret in certain Leicester quarters that Webbe has been getting some serious grief from Vazists and BJP elements since she got elected. I've no idea whether this has anything to do with the ongoing nastiness though, or whether it's totally unconnected (not being in any way associated with Labour). I'll ask around.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
The discrediting/de-fanging has already been done - regardless of the result an MP who's been charged loses legitimacy. The left of the party can't, with any seriousness, push for her to be promoted, any kind of leadership bid will go nowhere, acting as a 'figurehead' for the left is no longer an option, and Starmer isn't going to lose sleep at the idea of the CLP deciding that it doesn't want her as it's candidate for the next GE...
The nature of the charge means that even if she's aquitted, all manner of grotty personal stuff is going to come out. She's damaged goods regardless of the outcome of the trial.
The nature of the charge means that even if she's aquitted, all manner of grotty personal stuff is going to come out. She's damaged goods regardless of the outcome of the trial.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Her CLP jumping straight in not helping matters:
CLP accused of prejudicing case of MP Claudia Webbe with tweet on party action
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Revealing of how weak the 'left' within the PLP has so rapidly become that Starmer can just impose this. While I don't know the facts of the case against her she is innocent of the charge until proven otherwise. Removing the whip is staggeringly premature.
andysays
Love and solidarity
To me, harassment sounds like a far less serious crime than rape, though I suppose it could cover a range of situations, some quite serious.
Obviously we don't know and shouldn't speculate about the circumstances of this case, but in general terms, what actions or behaviour might lead to a charge of harassment?
Obviously we don't know and shouldn't speculate about the circumstances of this case, but in general terms, what actions or behaviour might lead to a charge of harassment?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Causing ‘alarm or distress’, putting people in fear of violence, including ‘repeated attempts to impose unwanted communications and contact upon a victim in a manner that could be expected to cause distress or fear in any reasonable person.‘
it's only a temporary suspension for now pending the outcome.
I don't think it is a left v right thing, I'm sure under Corbyn's leadership he'd have done the same.
after making such a fuss of the Tories not suspending their own arrested / charged MPs (or reinstating them for internal leadership ballots) it'd look pretty stupid for Labour not to do the same.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Thanks
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes, it’s temporary but under law she is innocent at this point. For all we know this is a politically motivated complaint without merit.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
She’s been arrested and charged. Which makes it rather unlikely it is purely meritless politics.
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