Kamala Harris' time is up

[Serge Forward]

Question... I noticed that in her speech Harris referred to the middle class. Do they have a different definition of m.c. to the one generally used here in Britain? If yes, what constitutes middle class in the US? *

* I am aware that the term middle class is mostly bullshit in a global economic system consisting of bourgeoisie and proletariat

 

[hitmouse]

bcuster, what do you think? I mean this is just filler nonsense, no?

Is it worth starting a "2024 yank elections - tangentially related crap" or similar thread? I thought Banks slagging off XCX over the Harris endorsement was quite funny and tbh it's probably not much more of a waste of time than debating what the election would be like if it was a trolley, but also probably not worth cluttering up too much of this thread with.

Question... I noticed that in her speech Harris referred to the middle class. Do they have a different definition of m.c. to the one generally used here in Britain? If yes, what constitutes middle class in the US? *

* I am aware that the term middle class is mostly bullshit in a global economic system consisting of bourgeoisie and proletariat

Is it not a longstanding thing that the US tends to use "middle class" where we would say "working class"? Like, they'll often use "middle class" for unionised factory jobs and the like?

 

[Silas Loom]

Question... I noticed that in her speech Harris referred to the middle class. Do they have a different definition of m.c. to the one generally used here in Britain? If yes, what constitutes middle class in the US? *

* I am aware that the term middle class is mostly bullshit in a global economic system consisting of bourgeoisie and proletariat

Yes. The middle class in the US is more like the median, while here it’s more like the mean. US usage equates roughly to our skilled working class through lower middle.

 

[Wilf]

By the by, we'll see how it goes when she's up and running, in the polls. However a 2% lead isn't much of a bounce for an articulate, positive candidate who isn't Joe Biden. Probably a continuation of how stuck they've been for months.

Well see and, of course, it's all about opinion in the swing states. Biden had to go and its early days, but still it's far from clear that the dynamic has really changed.

 

[Rompipalle]

The only thing wrong with this of course is that Trump couldn't break into a run, even to save his own skin. He can scarcely even negotiate a gentle incline.

 

[Kaka Tim]

By the by, we'll see how it goes when she's up and running, in the polls. However a 2% lead isn't much of a bounce for an articulate, positive candidate who isn't Joe Biden. Probably a continuation of how stuck they've been for months.

Well see and, of course, it's all about opinion in the swing states. Biden had to go and its early days, but still it's far from clear that the dynamic has really changed.

early days though.

 

[Wilf]

early days though.

I think the dynamics of the campaign have now shifted a lot. Its just that the deeper dynamic that gave Trump his chance in 2016 is still very much in play.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are two parts to the sunk cost fallacy, a cost and then that's why we're continuing / it should have been continued. That necessary part is absent from my post.

Nah. You made a mistake including it in your takedown of the decision. Own it.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I still think that’s a silly and ablist way of settling things when the electoral college is tied. Constitutional originalists should just get over themselves and come up with a resolution that doesn’t involve lengthy dance contests.

How about a lip synch battle?

 

[spring-peeper]

Saw this on Google news fact checkers - Fact Check: No, Viral Photo Does Not Show US Vice President Kamala Harris With Her Parents

Some one seems to want to brand her a liar about being black.






“Hello, everyone. I’m Kamala Harris and these are my parents. But why do I pretend to be black Merican?”


Her parents, Shyamala Gopalan, a cancer researcher from India, and Donald Harris, an economist from Jamaica, immigrated to the United States and met while pursuing advanced degrees at the University of California at Berkeley.”

Real picture of her mother:




....and the lies will probably continue

 

[Sue]

Out with an American friend tonight. She's lived here for 20 years but is originally from the Rust Belt and still has family there.

She reckons Harris won't play well where she's from (too female, too mixed race, too Californian) and reckons her running mate (male, white, Mid-West/Southern) is key. Anecdata etc but yeah, she seems pretty depressed about the whole thing.

 

[Nine Bob Note]

Trump got shot, Trump got off charges relating to stuff that he definately did, Trump named VP nominee, Trump made a barn-storming speech to Hillbilly Nuremberg all while Biden reached for his jar of Ovaltine. Then Biden quit and it's ALL ABOUT HARRIS. What will Trump do next?

 

[Humberto]

Trump got shot, Trump got off charges relating to stuff that he definately did, Trump named VP nominee, Trump made a barn-storming speech to Hillbilly Nuremberg all while Biden reached for his jar of Ovaltine. Then Biden quit and it's ALL ABOUT HARRIS. What will Trump do next?

Hire Liz Truss as campaign manager?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I'll wager you £20 that she does not. We can donate the winnings to the server fund or a charity of choice.

The initial spin by the Dems and their centrist media buddies:

"oh, this is what we wanted all along despite spending the last 2 years shoring up Biden despite it being obvious that he wasn't well enough to do another 4 years because our poling showed that only he could beat Trump"
"identity politics will save us in the rust belt"
"she's young, unlilke our last guy"
"we will win, now we have a candidate in charge of their basic facalties"
"what cost of living crisis?"
"The lawyer v the felon"

won't last more than a couple of weeks.

After that the reality of Harris will set in. Bad track record as a candidate, right centrist politics, no vision, no narrative, not a good communicator, no pull in the places where it matters (I accept there will be some pull, but in places already in the bag for the Dems) more of the same....

You could draw a sort of parallel with the UK general election with that bit in bold.

There was that poll that asked why people had voted Labour, and the very vast majority had answered they did so to get the Tories out, not because they like Starmer or believed he was a good leader or thought he was the right person for the job.

And similarly, lots of people who perhaps think that Harris isn't left enough, think her legal career was questionable in that it resulted in the incarceration of too many Black men, etc, will probably vote for her nevertheless because the alternative is much, much worse.

Perhaps people will vote Harris to keep Trump out like people here voted Starmer to kick the Tories out?

 

[Nine Bob Note]

Hire Liz Truss as campaign manager?

He was in Wisconsin, so I think they're alrite for cheese. Not sure about pork.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Out with an American friend tonight. She's lived here for 20 years but is originally from the Rust Belt and still has family there.

She reckons Harris won't play well where she's from (too female, too mixed race, too Californian) and reckons her running mate (male, white, Mid-West/Southern) is key. Anecdata etc but yeah, she seems pretty depressed about the whole thing.

She might be surprised. Not saying she's wrong, but I knew Americans who thought Obama couldn't win.

I lived in the southern states a very long time ago. There are a fuckload of openly racist white people in America, far more than here. But some of those openly racist white people voted for Obama. Their racism didn't trump everything.

 

[Humberto]

He was in Wisconsin, so I think they're alrite for cheese. Not sure about pork.

vpvpvp

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

This argument, or something close to it, has been put forward on here in the past. It's one that needs an entirely different thought experiment to illustrate it, but imo it's an arrogant position. It posits that the short-term suffering of many people who do not deserve to suffer is worth it in the name of highly uncertain ideas about future possibilities, with no concrete proposition as to the mechanism by which things start getting better again after they've got a whole lot worse.

'Things need to get even worse before they can get better' is just bollocks. This isn't chemotherapy.

I suspect that many of those making that argument won't be among the ones who suffer the most in the 'things have to worse' part before things get better.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I suspect that many of those making that argument won't be among the ones who suffer the most in the 'things have to worse' part before things get better.

I agree. It is an argument that should get short shrift on here imo.

 

[krtek a houby]

Is it not a longstanding thing that the US tends to use "middle class" where we would say "working class"? Like, they'll often use "middle class" for unionised factory jobs and the like?

Have noticed over the years that the terms "low class" and "lower class" are sometimes used by right wing Americans. It's derogatory stuff.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Have noticed over the years that the terms "low class" and "lower class" are sometimes used by right wing Americans. It's derogatory stuff.

But "middle class" is standard fare, and it is different from here. They slice the cake differently. Basically anyone who has a job that includes some kind of health insurance (which is most people) is middle class in the US.

ETA:

You are right, though. Low or lower class means someone who can't even get a job with health insurance and is probably on welfare, and yes it is used in a derogatory manner.

 

[Sue]

She might be surprised. Not saying she's wrong, but I knew Americans who thought Obama couldn't win.

I lived in the southern states a very long time ago. There are a fuckload of openly racist white people in America, far more than here. But some of those openly racist white people voted for Obama. Their racism didn't trump everything.

I hope you're right. She's actually going over next month to see family so guess she'll get a better feel for it then.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Snap off the point lever and jam it in rails and hope to derail it and miss both sets of people. Worth a punt.

But what if there are a 50 passengers on the trolley, as well as the driver, and if it derails there will be injured people, maybe numerous deaths, possibly more than five killed?

 

[Humberto]

There's a lot of personal attacks coming in against her between now and November. She only has to tell it like it is to pay it all back though. Can see her doing it well too.

 

[petee]

you get the idea

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There's a lot of personal attacks coming in against her between now and November. She only has to tell it like it is to pay it all back though. Can see her doing it well too.

The attacks I've seen so far are laughable. She's a woman who doesn't have children and she's pro-choice. Is that the best they can do?

The things they could legitimately attack her for, such as her record as a prosecutor in CA, it's hard to attack as she was being a good Republican, fucking over the poor to advance her own career.

What else is there, aside from attempting to weaponise her race, sex, or, most laughably of all, childlessness?

 

[Bingoman]

you get the idea

Misdemeanours?

 

[Yossarian]

you get the idea

Maybe there should be a separate enquiry into who or what Andy has been ogling

 

[Nine Bob Note]

Misdemeanours?

She once sold Opal Fruits with one removed from each pack so that she could make up an extra one.

 

[Humberto]

The attacks I've seen so far are laughable. She's a woman who doesn't have children and she's pro-choice. Is that the best they can do?

The things they could legitimately attack her for, such as her record as a prosecutor in CA, it's hard to attack as she was being a good Republican, fucking over the poor to advance her own career.

What else is there, aside from attempting to weaponise her race, sex, or, most laughably of all, childlessness?

It's nonsense but one guess of mine would be 'Hindu against God'. I don't know if she is a Hindu after cursory google.