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Just Stop Oil

klang said:
Whatever they disrupt or attack will be critisised. Can't win really.
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Big difference between attacking something directly causal to the problem, and just randomly chucking sherbert over stone age monoliths or jigsaw pieces over tennis lawns.
 
I thought it was just cornstarch they threw, I'd be interested to hear how much damage people think that might have caused.

Maybe a bit of non-Newtonian mud for people to have fun jumping on at the Solstice.

(My background is as an archaeologist so of course I'd be concerned about any actual damage to an ancient monument, but it really seems like this is a storm in a teacup and they picked something to make a point that wasn't going to cause any damage).
 
Karl Masks said:
Big difference between attacking something directly causal to the problem, and just randomly chucking sherbert over stone age monoliths or jigsaw pieces over tennis lawns.
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I'm sure if we dig deep enough we'll find that stonehenge indeed lays at the root of a lot of problems we face.
 
I feel really conflicted about this. On the one hand, it feels wrong, pointless, counterproductive. On the other hand, what's going to damage Stonehenge more, corn starch or a succession of severe weather events, or gradual failure of our society thanks to lack of food and resources? Things are that bad any protest is justifiable, frankly.

JSO is basically just screaming 'what the fuck?' in protest form. I'm not sure it achieves a great deal but I understand the impetus to do it.
 
I hold my hand up and say that I'm not a climate activist and that I'm not involved in environmental campaigning - i should be, because the prospects of global warming terrify me and they're probably the most urgent issues we face. But I'm nit involved.

Yet, jso have once again reminded me how urgent this issue is.

I might not agree with all their actions, but they never claimed to speak or campaign on my behalf.

Therefor I'm very reluctant to criticise something as nondestructive as the stonehenge action.

At least they make sure climate change pops up in the headlines once in a while.

If i want more or less or different action i should get off my arse myself and start organising.
 
I mean you could do anything and literally make the argument that climate change is worse. Being punched in the face is probably less harmful than the effects to our lives of climate change, but that's not going to win over fans. Randomly chucking flour over things just looks bizarre. Never mind blocking a mum taking her baby to hospital.
 
Karl Masks said:
I mean you could do anything and literally make the argument that climate change is worse. Being punched in the face is probably less harmful than the effects to our lives of climate change, but that's not going to win over fans. Randomly chucking flour over things just looks bizarre. Never mind blocking a mum taking her baby to hospital.
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It's all about the attention. It's not about directly winning over fans. There is a strategy behind what they do: The method behind Just Stop Oil’s madness and this: Can the Tactics of 'Just Stop Oil' Actually Stop Oil? | Common Dreams (more critical)
 
Whatever their level of usefulness it has to be higher than just repeating this same cycle of debate. Karl's on page one saying exactly the same thing, followed by people making the counter-argument, roundy roundy ...
 
I don't have a problem with cornflour on Stonehenge if it benefits a good cause. This is a good cause. I do have a problem understanding how this sort of action helps what their cause.

In terms of simple cause and effect, I can't see it achieving much beyond varying degrees of annoyance among the wider public, many who might also support their aims (that and hefty prison sentences).

It's all a bit Basil Fawlty - your car won't start so give it a jolly good thrashing with a twig. I see that JSO are aiming for outrage, but I don't see this sort of outrage achieving much. Surely spraying the homes and cars of prominent polluters would be better, only with water based gloss paint. That would be direct action. Attacking Stonehenge is indirect action, every bit as indirect as voting for the Green Party.

Stunt politics is rubbish.
 
They're not just stones, it's 5,000 year-old world heritage. JSO are not much use I think because they kind of select themselves to be arbiters of conscience on the issue, thus both leading the issue into wanky unpopular hobbyist territory and alienating most people on a vital issue. The act is easily done and doesn't have much resonance or value.
 
Serge Forward said:
Surely spraying the homes and cars of prominent polluters would be better, only with water based gloss paint. That would be direct action.
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Yeah, that would be better. We could all nod our heads in support and say "good for them".

Just as we have many times before.

I get why they're "targeting us" instead.

It's probably not going to work, but I get it.
 
I think jso have been largely shown up by palestine action in terms of their tactics and direct action. as far as I'm aware theyve both come out of the breakdown of xr but PA seems to have done a lot of learning about how to select and disrupt their targets as well as support people who get arrested and providing arrestee and court support/after care etc. from what ive seen jso dont have the same kind of infrastructure (though I may be wrong that).

having said all that, I see this action as pretty value neutral. I can't imagine it will persuade many people into ditching their use of oil, but I also doubt it will make people increase their use in reaction to it. it sparks huge conversation, largely about their tactics and protest in general, but if that then moves on to discussing the climate and how to lessen our use of oil then that's positive.

I agree with lazythursday in that this partly just feels like people screaming in despair.
 
Serge Forward said:
I don't have a problem with cornflour on Stonehenge if it benefits a good cause. This is a good cause. I do have a problem understanding how this sort of action helps what their cause.

In terms of simple cause and effect, I can't see it achieving much beyond varying degrees of annoyance among the wider public, many who might also support their aims (that and hefty prison sentences).

It's all a bit Basil Fawlty - your car won't start so give it a jolly good thrashing with a twig. I see that JSO are aiming for outrage, but I don't see this sort of outrage achieving much. Surely spraying the homes and cars of prominent polluters would be better, only with water based gloss paint. That would be direct action. Attacking Stonehenge is indirect action, every bit as indirect as voting for the Green Party.

Stunt politics is rubbish.
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Stunt politics on their own are a bit rubbish indeed, but do have their place in political activism, but to be effective and to fullfil their roll, they have to be part of something bigger.
The fact that they are not part of a wider radical climate movement is not jso's fault.

I still don't buy the argument that jso tactics are allienating others.
They never stopped me from spraying the cars of people who profit from climate change.
But i know what I'd get: criticism for atttacking private property, thus allienating the wider population.
 
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PR1Berske said:
I suspect that this stunt has ensured that JSO have lost any remaining support they had from the general public. They're due every penalty coming to them.
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They're not really after trying to bolster their numbers or garner support for their group, just want to get the climate crisis onto the front pages and into conversations.
 
klang said:
For those claiming a bit of natural dye on a few rocks is counter-productive to the cause: will people really think to themselves 'well i was terrified of climate change and wished something would be done, but i have now changed my mind and prefer global warming to go full steam ahead'?
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That's the thing, I don't see how actions like this move the dial in any direction.

It seems like the sort of thing designed to make those taking part feel good about themselves rather than actually achieve much.

But fuck lining up with the likes of Sunak and the mail. How much image is done to archaeological sites I'm the pursuit of profit? How much dmage done to archeology in general by cuts.

The action is pointless and I'm frankly indifferent to it, but the only anger there should be here is towards the hypocrites condemning it.
 
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