J
johnwisehammer
Guest
Cautious Fred is 100% right there.
Just got back from anti-war demo
- Thread starter Nemo
- Start date
Mysterymonster
Jane's mystery
Well red, I too, used to think that you had to push harder to make yourself heard. I now disagree with this as I think it just serves to distance some would be protesters, that stay away from Anti Capitalist, Reclaim the Streets marches.
It also makes it easier for the media to discredit protesters as mindless thugs.
I have taken my kids to many marches, but do not feel able to take them to the Anti-Cap. marches, cos of the violence that I know will ensue.
My kids loved the RTS marches, but I am so releived that I didn't take them with me to J18!! What a waste.
It also makes it easier for the media to discredit protesters as mindless thugs.
I have taken my kids to many marches, but do not feel able to take them to the Anti-Cap. marches, cos of the violence that I know will ensue.
My kids loved the RTS marches, but I am so releived that I didn't take them with me to J18!! What a waste.
Cautious Fred
commie troublemaker
Thanx JWH!
(PS I hope you're ok after your accident with the bus, Well Red. Didn't you say you used to drive a bus yourself? Wasn't one of your old bosses at the wheel on Saturday, was it?)
(PS I hope you're ok after your accident with the bus, Well Red. Didn't you say you used to drive a bus yourself? Wasn't one of your old bosses at the wheel on Saturday, was it?)
Cautious Fred,
Not an attack on you personally, but just a point I've been wanting to make to an SWPer for a while now...whilst slogans are fine on big demos which can incorporate lots of different blocks, would you agree that they are totally counterproductive on peace vigils and smaller demos, when we are trying to attract EVERYONE who is anti-war, left wing or not? I bring it up because I was at a march in Oxford last week, and the SWP contingent (all 5 of them) had a megaphone and _insisted_ on yelling slogans at people on the street, quite clearly driving away some people who were interested. Would you agree that the SWP has to look at varying its tactics from time to time, rather than taking the same approach to everything all the time?
Matt
Not an attack on you personally, but just a point I've been wanting to make to an SWPer for a while now...whilst slogans are fine on big demos which can incorporate lots of different blocks, would you agree that they are totally counterproductive on peace vigils and smaller demos, when we are trying to attract EVERYONE who is anti-war, left wing or not? I bring it up because I was at a march in Oxford last week, and the SWP contingent (all 5 of them) had a megaphone and _insisted_ on yelling slogans at people on the street, quite clearly driving away some people who were interested. Would you agree that the SWP has to look at varying its tactics from time to time, rather than taking the same approach to everything all the time?
Matt
Cautious Fred
commie troublemaker
The SWP does vary its tactics. I agree that shouting slogans on, say, peace vigils can be inappropriate. But on peace vigils I've attended with other members of the SWP we've respected the organisers' wishes and not shouted slogans.
This happened quite recently, when CND organised a silent protest outside Downing Street and requested that people wear black and not bring placards. There were many SWP members there (including myself) and we respected those wishes.
As for smaller demos, I'd disagree that no one should shout slogans. The best demos - big or small - are generally loud, confident and politically charged. This sort of demo is MORE likely to attract people, IMHO, than one that just skulks by noiselessly. (Mind you, I wasn't on the demo you mention, so I can't speak for that).
Plus slogans can crystalise important political ideas. There's already been a discussion on another thread about the slogan: "1-2-3-4, we don't want your racist war! 5-6-7-8, spend the money on the welfare state!" This contrasts the obscene billions spent on weapons to the tiny amounts spent on the NHS etc. that benefits ordinary people.
This happened quite recently, when CND organised a silent protest outside Downing Street and requested that people wear black and not bring placards. There were many SWP members there (including myself) and we respected those wishes.
As for smaller demos, I'd disagree that no one should shout slogans. The best demos - big or small - are generally loud, confident and politically charged. This sort of demo is MORE likely to attract people, IMHO, than one that just skulks by noiselessly. (Mind you, I wasn't on the demo you mention, so I can't speak for that).
Plus slogans can crystalise important political ideas. There's already been a discussion on another thread about the slogan: "1-2-3-4, we don't want your racist war! 5-6-7-8, spend the money on the welfare state!" This contrasts the obscene billions spent on weapons to the tiny amounts spent on the NHS etc. that benefits ordinary people.
Nemo, thanks for the reassurance on the date of the next one -- as it now seems to be Sunday 18th, I will DEFINITELY be there!!
See you all and love to all
W of W
See you all and love to all
W of W
Yea, Freddie, instead of the democratic and informed debate about politics, SWP/Patronise Resistance relay on such sophisticated think-tanks as teenagers churning out slogans during the demos.
Very, very enlighting "1-2-3-4 we don't" can now stand for the whole program of the global twatskyism/leninism.
Well done all of you demo-grown philosophers
Very, very enlighting "1-2-3-4 we don't" can now stand for the whole program of the global twatskyism/leninism.
Well done all of you demo-grown philosophers
J
johnwisehammer
Guest
While I'm a little perturbed by the fact I've heard the exact same slogans chanted by dozens of different groups of SWPers recently, I think only a prize wanker or complete smartarse would suggest you can represent a whole ideology or platform in the three or four seconds you get for a chant.
I suppose a lot of what Fred and Matt say depends on context. Excessive shouty-shouty through a megaphone can (in some situations) be less effective than a non-threatening "hello, have you heard about the (new incinerator) (horrible things in Afghanistan) (fact that the council wants to privatise the primary school)?" and (when there aren't many of you), look frankly ridiculous.
I suppose a lot of what Fred and Matt say depends on context. Excessive shouty-shouty through a megaphone can (in some situations) be less effective than a non-threatening "hello, have you heard about the (new incinerator) (horrible things in Afghanistan) (fact that the council wants to privatise the primary school)?" and (when there aren't many of you), look frankly ridiculous.
D
Derek
Guest
You weren't there so you don't know what happened. The violence was directed against capitalist property and it was the police started the violence not us, when they knocked two protesters down with vans. A woman was ran over by a police van and ambulances were prevented from reaching the injured by the police.
Missing the point for England Derek.
Janemonster has more of a clue than you do, so spare her the ranting. If you can't even empathise with what its like for her to be concerned for kids getting mixed up in violence (Police or other) then I'd suggest you try.
W of W
[ 17 October 2001: Message edited by: William of Walworth ]
Janemonster has more of a clue than you do, so spare her the ranting. If you can't even empathise with what its like for her to be concerned for kids getting mixed up in violence (Police or other) then I'd suggest you try.
W of W
[ 17 October 2001: Message edited by: William of Walworth ]
Piers Gibbon
Well-Known Member
here's an old one....
And it's 1 2 3
What are we fighting 4?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
Next stop Afghanistan
And it's 5 6 7
Open up the Pearly Gates
Ohhh there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee - we're all gonna die
(from the anti vietnam protests - heard it on the woodstock album)
And it's 1 2 3
What are we fighting 4?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
Next stop Afghanistan
And it's 5 6 7
Open up the Pearly Gates
Ohhh there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee - we're all gonna die
(from the anti vietnam protests - heard it on the woodstock album)
Cautious Fred
commie troublemaker
Brilliant!
Any chance of posting the rest of the lyrics from this song, PG (or anyone)?
Any chance of posting the rest of the lyrics from this song, PG (or anyone)?
Cautious Fred
commie troublemaker
Too late! I'll do it myself.
"I-feel-like-I'm-fixin-to-die-rag"
by Country Joe McDonald.
Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds —
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Huh!
Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
(I found this here).
[ 17 October 2001: Message edited by: Cautious Fred ]
"I-feel-like-I'm-fixin-to-die-rag"
by Country Joe McDonald.
Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds —
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Huh!
Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
(I found this here).
[ 17 October 2001: Message edited by: Cautious Fred ]
Mysterymonster
Jane's mystery
Read my post properly derek. I said I didn't take my kids with me to J18. I know exactly what happened at J18, and was right next to the girl that got run over. A friend of mine got her shoulder bashed as the police van tried to reverse. People were right to be angry, however the whole thing got out of hand. I should know this too, but won't comment on it on these boards.
You have missed the point, and on this occasion I will be generous, and put it down to the fact that you don't have kids of your own.
You have missed the point, and on this occasion I will be generous, and put it down to the fact that you don't have kids of your own.
Piers Gibbon
Well-Known Member
hey Cautious thanks...have you heard the tune yet...its a toetapper
that site that gives the lyrics has the intro too BUT - when they did it live at woodstock they got everyone to shout the letters of F.U.C.K out loud...
(apparently the largest number of people to shout fuck at the same time)....but on that website it has somehow become F.I.S.H
I hope someone plays it live at the next demo - I like singing, me.
that site that gives the lyrics has the intro too BUT - when they did it live at woodstock they got everyone to shout the letters of F.U.C.K out loud...
(apparently the largest number of people to shout fuck at the same time)....but on that website it has somehow become F.I.S.H
I hope someone plays it live at the next demo - I like singing, me.
PatelsCornerShop
watching you watching me
[ 17 October 2001: Message edited by: PatelsCornerShop ]
