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Starry Wisdom
No, it leads to a 404
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
That’s no good is it.
Here’s the text from what I can get on the site...
Warsaw ghetto vandal to speak at Momentum’s Corbyn festival
Andrew Gilligan and Anna Gizowska
September 9 2018, 12:01am, The Sunday Times
Anti-Israel activist Ewa Jasiewicz caused outrage with her ‘desecration’ of the former Warsaw ghetto
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A woman who spray-painted graffiti “tainted with anti-semitism” on one of the last surviving walls of the Warsaw ghetto will speak at a Momentum event alongside the Labour Party conference this month.
Ewa Jasiewicz, a British anti-Israel activist, caused outrage with her “desecration” of the site, where an estimated 92,000 Jews died and 300,000 more were held before being transported to death camps.
Jasiewicz will speak from the platform at Momentum’s politics and arts festival, The World Transformed, which will take place in parallel with Labour’s conference in Liverpool. Other speakers will include Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor.
Graffiti sprayed on the wall at the ghetto in 2010
The ghetto was almost razed by the Germans in 1943, but in 2010 Jasiewicz and another activist, Yonatan Shapira, sprayed the words “Liberate all…
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Had a lot of time for Ewa In the past. I found her to be a principled person who would act on those principles even if it cost her. That old stunt is of course shit. Why it's being dragged up now is probably even shitter.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Oh look, it's Gilligan again.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Oh, ewa, she's alright, known her for years
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
The way she got called out and her defence about countering racism ‘all her life’ was revealing.
It’s antisemitic and wrong tarnish a section of the ghetto wall with pro-Palestine graffiti, and to hold a Palestinian flag near the wall with ‘BDS’ on it. The statements in that context are highly offensive and wrong regardless of who put it there.
I loathe Gilligan deeply but the ‘free Palestine’ graffiti in this context is abhorrent. Had it been dubbed on a synagogue it would be investigated as a hate crime.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Would it?
But anyway, Gilligan has the response he was paid to get.
But anyway, Gilligan has the response he was paid to get.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I'm more disappointed ewa has ended up in that union/labour lib left/anti-imperialist nexus than some stunt from near a decade ago (fill in your 2010 context here).
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
I guess it comes down to the laws of each country. For example, here’s a hate crime attack on a synagogue in Chicago which used similar language in its graffiti - Chicago synagogues hit by hate crime spree
Given the focus, Gilligan does what a Gilligan does, which is wrong but people should be concerned about the politics of a person who does antisemtic graffiti. Now, is Ewa an antisemite? I am not sure. But given the invitation it does make sense to an extent (the Gilligan article). Has she ever apologised? If she hasn’t then I understand the pain many Jewish people have expressed online.
Given the focus, Gilligan does what a Gilligan does, which is wrong but people should be concerned about the politics of a person who does antisemtic graffiti. Now, is Ewa an antisemite? I am not sure. But given the invitation it does make sense to an extent (the Gilligan article). Has she ever apologised? If she hasn’t then I understand the pain many Jewish people have expressed online.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
She's not an anti-semite no. Nor does this stupid stunt from 2010 ( again, gaps for context here) make her one. She's someone with a long term commitment to decent politics.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's not really that similar. In fact, i would say there is a disingenuous false equivalence being employed here.
edit: 2009 and 2010 really working today btw
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
To be fair to her she does a mind-boggling array of stuff, some bits more radical than others. Last spotted helping organise a UVW picket line.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
might be 'oh so radical' to you, but makes total sense ?
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
No it’s doesn’t
cantsin
Well-Known Member
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Er, her writing desecrated in quotation marks, and claiming it’s not antiSemitic to use the site of the murder of Jews to link to the crimes of Israel.
How does it make sense to you?
cantsin
Well-Known Member
everything I've read about Ewa JasiewiczI supports Sarkar's angle here, ie : she sounds like more of an anti facsist than a 1000 x cynical f*cking w*nkers ( inevitably ) trying desperately to keep the a/s dustcloud kicked up
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Desecration does have a specific religious and political meaning though - with a series of associated implications. Does desecration ever appear in the Gilligan piece though? I can't see how it could - except by the same disingenuous process as above.
edit: I've only came across this ash person once before when she was imperiously stupid on the nicky campbell show.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
So nothing about the actual graffiti then
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
If it is true that the wall was regularly used as a (political) graffiti wall by many others already, then there is a clear rationalisation for EJ to do so. Probably not the most tactically astute act, but not the anti-semitic vileness that shithead Gilligan claims.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Graffiti on a synagogue in 2014 during the air assault on Gaza in Brighton was investigated along those lines with forensics called (no one was caught)
Link Graffiti daubed on Hove synagogue
Richard Seymour tweet thread
"1.) In 2010, a delegation of Israeli leftists went to Poland and spray-painted one of the remaining walls from the Warsaw Ghetto with pro-Palestine graffiti. The party was led by ex-IDF pilot Yonatan Shapira, whose family was butchered after being incarcerated in the Ghetto.
2.) The rationale given by Shapira. IDF objector sprays 'Free Gaza' graffiti on Warsaw Ghetto wall
Shapira went on to call the Israeli public indifferent and said "we will do everything to wake it up, even spray graffiti on an abandoned ghetto wall."
During last week's protest, Shapira said, "Most of my family came from Poland and many of my relatives were killed in the death camps during the Holocaust. When I walk in what was left from the Warsaw Ghetto, I cant stop thinking about the people of Gaza who are not only locked in an open air prison but are also being bombarded by fighter jets, attack helicopters and drones, flown by people whom I used to serve with before my refusal in 2003."
He continued, "I am also thinking about the delegations of young Israelis that are coming to see the history of our people but also are subjected to militaristic and nationalistic brainwashing on a daily basis. Maybe if they see what we wrote here today they will remember that oppression is oppression, occupation is occupation and crimes against humanity are crimes against humanity, whether they have been committed here in Warsaw or in Gaza."
3.) I personally think this is one of the worst possible ways to protest the injustices against Palestine.
4) As Jewdas have pointed out, regardless of intentions, it makes it seem as if Jews as such, rather than the Israeli state, have to answer for the crimes against Palestinians.
5) But it’s not surprising that, repeatedly, Jewish people — from Holocaust survivors to their descendants — have reached for this historical experience, their experience, in trying to describe what has happened to Palestinians.
6) The reporting of this protest, and of journalist Ewa Jasiewicz’s participation in it, calls it desecration, as it were tantamount to swastikas daubed in Jewish graveyards.
7) In so doing, the reporting compares the descendants of Holocaust victims and survivors, to Nazis. Jewish men and women, to antisemites. That’s a disgrace."
The Jewdas tweet in 4)2.) The rationale given by Shapira. IDF objector sprays 'Free Gaza' graffiti on Warsaw Ghetto wall
Shapira went on to call the Israeli public indifferent and said "we will do everything to wake it up, even spray graffiti on an abandoned ghetto wall."
During last week's protest, Shapira said, "Most of my family came from Poland and many of my relatives were killed in the death camps during the Holocaust. When I walk in what was left from the Warsaw Ghetto, I cant stop thinking about the people of Gaza who are not only locked in an open air prison but are also being bombarded by fighter jets, attack helicopters and drones, flown by people whom I used to serve with before my refusal in 2003."
He continued, "I am also thinking about the delegations of young Israelis that are coming to see the history of our people but also are subjected to militaristic and nationalistic brainwashing on a daily basis. Maybe if they see what we wrote here today they will remember that oppression is oppression, occupation is occupation and crimes against humanity are crimes against humanity, whether they have been committed here in Warsaw or in Gaza."
3.) I personally think this is one of the worst possible ways to protest the injustices against Palestine.
4) As Jewdas have pointed out, regardless of intentions, it makes it seem as if Jews as such, rather than the Israeli state, have to answer for the crimes against Palestinians.
5) But it’s not surprising that, repeatedly, Jewish people — from Holocaust survivors to their descendants — have reached for this historical experience, their experience, in trying to describe what has happened to Palestinians.
6) The reporting of this protest, and of journalist Ewa Jasiewicz’s participation in it, calls it desecration, as it were tantamount to swastikas daubed in Jewish graveyards.
7) In so doing, the reporting compares the descendants of Holocaust victims and survivors, to Nazis. Jewish men and women, to antisemites. That’s a disgrace."
"Writing graffiti about Gaza by the Warsaw ghetto (even if not on the actual ghetto wall) is a dodgy thing to do as it implies that people should blame the suffering of Gazans on Jews rather than nationalist ideology. Please don't do this kind of thing."
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It would be one if the many thousands of incidents investigated for an hour or two and then dropped by the mps.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Just trying to catch up on this latest thing. Can't read the Times piece in full, but piecing things together from what's been linked to here. On the whole, I don't think I'd take any lectures from Andrew Gilligan on past errors of judgement. He worked for Press TV for two years.
Seymour's point 5 is also important. Ghettos and walls are an obvious symbolic parallel, both for the Gaza blockade and the West Bank Apartheid Wall. And people from Jewish backgrounds, and others, who wish to make comments in favour of justice often reach for those parallels. They are valid, so long as they don't do what Jewdas correctly exhort us not to do: create any implication that Jews in general are to blame for the situation in Gaza or the West Bank.
The whole cycle of blaming and/or punishing entire populations for this thing or that is one of the things we should be fighting against.
Never heard of Ash Sarkar.
Completely agree with this point, and with Seymour's point 4 (which is a variation on, though not exact replication of, this point). I'm disappointed to learn Ewa was involved. I have a lot of respect for her (although this isn't the first time I've questioned her judgement).
Seymour's point 5 is also important. Ghettos and walls are an obvious symbolic parallel, both for the Gaza blockade and the West Bank Apartheid Wall. And people from Jewish backgrounds, and others, who wish to make comments in favour of justice often reach for those parallels. They are valid, so long as they don't do what Jewdas correctly exhort us not to do: create any implication that Jews in general are to blame for the situation in Gaza or the West Bank.
The whole cycle of blaming and/or punishing entire populations for this thing or that is one of the things we should be fighting against.
Never heard of Ash Sarkar.
Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
Lucky you.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the word 'offensive' isn't one they used. so, not from their own words in 2010.
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