Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Theisticle]

the word 'offensive' isn't one they used. so, not from their own words in 2010.

I meant they were knowingly being provocative and offensive. This was a targeted act of antisemitic graffiti and just a distortion of the Holocaust by attempting to link it the vile and illegal practices of the Israeli government. The comparison between Gaza and the Warsaw ghetto is antisemitic and ahisotric. They knew all of this but went ahead with their stunt to cause maximum offence.

 

[Pickman's model]

I meant they were knowingly being provocative and offensive. This was a targeted act of antisemitic graffiti and just a distortion of the Holocaust by attempting to link it the vile and illegal practices of the Israeli government. The comparison between Gaza and the Warsaw ghetto is antisemitic and ahisotric. They knew all of this but went ahead with their stunt to cause maximum offence.

2010 wants its frothing back. nice of you to feel so outraged on behalf of world jewry and that but calm down dear, it's only a wall. i mean it's not like they'd corralled a load of people and chopped the amount of food down let into the inhabitants.

what causes me offence is what happens in palestine on a daily basis. a few words on a cenotaph or a wall is nothing in comparison to the very real brutality meted out on a daily basis by the zionist entity.

 

[Theisticle]

Nobody is saying that. You can be outraged at the daily injustices against Palestinians living under occupation and feel anger that a sight of great historical trauma for Jewish people was targeted this way.

 

[TopCat]

Nobody is saying that. You can be outraged at the daily injustices against Palestinians living under occupation and feel anger that a sight of great historical trauma for Jewish people was targeted this way.

Do you feel outraged at the daily injustices againt the Palestinian peoples?

 

[Pickman's model]

Nobody is saying that. You can be outraged at the daily injustices against Palestinians living under occupation and feel anger that a sight of great historical trauma for Jewish people was targeted this way.

i have i suspect a rather closer familial connection to the ghetto than you do but i am in no way troubled or disturbed by the graffiti: i am much more concerned about the need for people to say such things. the site the right place for that sight. they could of course have painted walls of some of the longer lasting ghettos in europe. they could have painted the wall of clifford's tower in york, scene of the largest pogrom in british history. but for all that it's a bit late, after eight years, to start frothing so.

 

[xarmian]

There's a Pole who lives in the Warsaw ghetto on Richard Seymour's thread with some details on the geography.

"As many know I live in Warsaw’s former Jewish ghetto+have done for over 25yrs. I live 800m from where the graffiti The Times alleges was made on a Ghetto monument. Sorry but its BS to smear Labour. The wall painted is in ul Walicow on a pre war ruined house not the ghetto wall"
​

Maps and pictures in the link.

The Times is running another hit on Jasciewicz tomorrow.

McDonnell published some plans that have been ignored in the middle of all this. Is this the right place to post them? McDonnell: Labour will give power to workers through ‘ownership funds’

 

[sleaterkinney]

I see Rosie Duffield has been censured for attending a demonstration against antisemitism.

 

[butchersapron]

I see Rosie Duffield has been censured for attending a demonstration against antisemitism.

You see that someone you've never heard of and just want to use has been - as you totally inaccurately claim - censured. Lay out what's actually happened here unity-monger.

 

[sleaterkinney]

You see that someone you've never heard of and just want to use has been - as you totally inaccurately claim - has been censured.

Ok, there's going to be a vote to censure her.

Lay out what's actually happened here unity-monger.

As the letter says:

"We have observed the words and conduct of our Labour MP, Rosie Duffield, and we are dissatisfied at her decision to involve herself with groups and organisations that are campaigning to damage our Party, as well as impede its efforts to ensure the right to criticise crimes committed by the state of Israel.

“We are particularly concerned that Rosie chose to show her support for these parties at a demonstration organised to groundlessly accuse the Party of systematic antisemitism.

“She compounded this conduct by carelessly appearing to threaten the leader at a meeting of an organisation which, though affiliated with the Labour Party, does not at all times share its priorities."

 

[butchersapron]

OMFG a motion by members of the party!!!!! That may be voted on!!!!!

 

[butchersapron]

Have you ever actually been in any sort of party or organisation? How do you imagine that they work?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Have you ever actually been in any sort of party or organisation? How do you imagine that they work?

I haven't got a problem with them voting on a motion, it's the motion itself.

 

[butchersapron]

The motion expresses an opinion that you don't agree with (neither do I) and you chose to use it as an example of what? Ongoing anti-semitism? The lefts anti unity agenda?

 

[butchersapron]

How many other motions have you seen and commented on recently then sleater? Is the number two by any chance?

 

[sleaterkinney]

The motion expresses an opinion that you don't agree with (neither do I) and you chose to use it as an example of what? Ongoing anti-semitism? The lefts anti unity agenda?

In this case both onngoing anti-semitism and also the cult around corbyn, both of which are problems.

 

[killer b]

It just means there's a couple of nutters in the Canterbury CLP, like in every CLP in the country. The motion has been withdrawn after pressure from the rest of the local members btw.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

“what people said to us was: Labour used to be working class, it used to be a pie and a pint – it’s now a protesting student. It used to be someone playing the bingo; now it’s someone going on a demo,”

Labour has shifted focus from bingo to quinoa, say swing voters

Of course voters used to say the same about new labour and Blair. But the point here is after three years of Corbyn leadership the party remains disconnected culturally and politically from the class it purports to represent. A move to support ‘the people’s vote’ on the EU would represent a further significant nail in the coffin.

 

[chilango]

“what people said to us was: Labour used to be working class, it used to be a pie and a pint – it’s now a protesting student. It used to be someone playing the bingo; now it’s someone going on a demo,”

Labour has shifted focus from bingo to quinoa, say swing voters

Of course voters used to say the same about new labour and Blair. But the point here is after three years of Corbyn leadership the party remains disconnected culturally and politically from the class it purports to represent. A move to support ‘the people’s vote’ on the EU would represent a further significant nail in the coffin.

Some horrible class caricaturing there.

 

[Theisticle]

This is an interesting post from Jewdas:

 

[crossthebreeze]

This is an interesting post from Jewdas:

yes thoughful words as usual from Geoffry Jewdas:

At a site of such indescribable trauma, this action was at best insensitive and crass. At worst, it risks being interpreted as a suggestion that Jews, rather than Israel, are to blame for what’s happening in Gaza. It also suggests that as long as the occupation of Palestine continues, the millions of Jews in the diaspora whose ancestors perished there should not be allowed the space to mourn that history, no matter how minimal their connections to the Israeli state.

However, our hurt and anger at this action is not there to be manipulated by yet another right wing attack on the Labour party, nor as part of what is becoming a vicious personal attack on a female activist. Pointing out when the actions of fellow activists are hurtful and may even be perceived as anti-Semitic does not mean we are labelling them anti-Semites and calling for their exclusion from our movements. We need to cultivate a culture in which ‘calling out’ means what it should – asking people to consider their actions, rethink their methods and consider how things are perceived and felt by others. Rosh Hashanah, when we consider our actions as individuals and collectives, is the perfect time to do this.

...

In the Warsaw ghetto, a number of left-Zionists, socialists and Bundists worked to keep a record of what was happening to them, burying letters, diaries, newspapers and other documents in the ground as it became clear they would not survive. They saw this archive as a message to future generations, in their own words ‘to hurl a stone under history’s wheel’ and prevent such atrocities from happening again.

We *should* fight to liberate all ghettos in memory of their sacrifice. The lessons of the Holocaust must be learned and galvanized against forces of nationalism, racism and persecution today, including that of the state of Israel. All we ask is that these points are made with sensitivity and respect, and not in the form of slogans written on a wall where tens of thousands of our ancestors were shot, burned and suffocated to death.



​

 

[killer b]

Some horrible class caricaturing there.

Yeah - there's no doubt that Labour have some issues connecting with their traditional base, but I don't think the people saying Labour have problems connecting with their traditional base in this focus group are actually Labour's traditional base themselves. Do any working class people think being working class has anything to do with bingo and pies?

'quinoa' is a blanket dismissal of liberal middle class people by conservative middle class people isn't it?

 

[Pickman's model]

This is an interesting post from Jewdas:

grand. can you show us an interesting post from you?

 

[MickiQ]

Some horrible class caricaturing there.

A typical comment from one participant in Crewe was “I think they’re trying to appeal to literally anyone now”.
Bit of an odd statement there, i would have thought appealing to as many people as possible would be a sound strategy for a political party

 

[killer b]

On the whole that article is relatively positive for Labour's current strategy tbh. How strange they focus on quinoa.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

You can get Quinoa in Aldi and Lidl now, it’s mainstream.....

 

[Santino]

A typical comment from one participant in Crewe was “I think they’re trying to appeal to literally anyone now”.
Bit of an odd statement there, i would have thought appealing to as many people as possible would be a sound strategy for a political party

Other than in the most banal sense, no.

 

[killer b]

These charts paint a more mixed and interesting picture. The tory chart is horrendous though - why isn't that the story?

 

[rekil]

Labour should adopt PD's 'mandatory monster bingo' policy then.

 

[Pickman's model]

These charts paint a more mixed and interesting picture. The tory chart is horrendous though - why isn't that the story?

huge story here, yet the labour party's always the one presented as being 'unbritish'.

 

[JimW]

Can Corbyn clickety-click with the class?