Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Pickman's model]

Imagine if we held other people personally responsible for the crimes of their governments. Who would there even be that you could still have a polite conversation with? Maybe Finnish people, but that would be about it.

perhaps you need to improve your knowledge of finnish history

 

[Shechemite]

One can never Finnish learning about them

 

[Cloo]

Was that on here Cloo ? I ask because I have a memory of someone going at you and accusing your relatives of being 'settlers' ...I thought it was on FB tbh.

Yeah, it was on here. Utterly moronic!

 

[J Ed]

Full adoption of the IHRA and examples. If they were going to just end up doing it anyway, why not do so months ago?

 

[danny la rouge]

Full adoption of the IHRA and examples. If they were going to just end up doing it anyway, why not do so months ago?

They had no choice at this point. But it's hardly a PR coup.

 

[hash tag]

Lets hope this issue is put to bed once and for all, but I doubt it.

 

[Humirax]

The plot thickens

 

[Shechemite]

Lets hope this issue is put to bed once and for all,

Why would we hope for it to be put to bed?

 

[Humirax]

So much for the new NEC, looks like a shite time for freedom of speech from where I'm standing.

 

[danny la rouge]

Lets hope this issue is put to bed once and for all, but I doubt it.

Well, it's doubtful given that nothing has substantially changed.

 

[Humirax]

Well, it's doubtful given that nothing has substantially changed.

In what way?

 

[danny la rouge]

In what way?

In the way that the issues at the root of this are still there.

The three strands I referred to in this post are unaffected. All that has happened is that Labour has been forced to adopt a definition of antisemitism complete with examples that are open to interpretations that close down debate and, frankly, justice.

 

[brogdale]

Lets hope this issue is put to bed once and for all, but I doubt it.

Your doubt is well placed.

 

[teqniq]

Lets hope this issue is put to bed once and for all, but I doubt it.

I doubt is as well. It's not going to be allowed to go away all the while that Corbyn is at the helm. I feel it incumbent upon me at this point to say my main interest in the Momentum project is seeing something somewhat more socialist-leaning happen in this country and if that means having Corbyn in charge for now I'm ok with that. For now. Tbh I am more concerned on their position wrt to the likes of Putin and Assad.

 

[oryx]

So much for the new NEC, looks like a shite time for freedom of speech from where I'm standing.

AFAIK It's not the new NEC who decided this - the NEC members elected yesterday don't take their positions until the Labour Party conference later in the month.

 

[oryx]

IMHO no-one in their right mind can imagine that this will be the end of it.

 

[Humirax]

AFAIK It's not the new NEC who decided this - the NEC members elected yesterday don't take their positions until the Labour Party conference later in the month.

So the new NEC can change this? Isn't this something members should vote on? My understanding was that that was what was going to happen? Maybe it still is?

 

[Pickman's model]

So much for the new NEC, looks like a shite time for freedom of speech from where I'm standing.

Yeh, but this is the Labour Party we're talking about, it sounds like all this is a surprise to you

 

[Humirax]

The party rules seem weird to me

 

[Humirax]

So technically, at the moment, a certain criticism of Israel can get you booted out of the party, unless the new NEC changes things? Or will there be a membership vote?

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes

 

[oryx]

So the new NEC can change this? Isn't this something members should vote on? My understanding was that that was what was going to happen? Maybe it still is?

I don't know - I'm wondering the same.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

In the way that the issues at the root of this are still there.

The three strands I referred to in this post are unaffected. All that has happened is that Labour has been forced to adopt a definition of antisemitism complete with examples that are open to interpretations that close down debate and, frankly, justice.

It probably marks something close to the end of this particular media campaign, though it will go on a bit longer as various people say it’s not enough and that the fact it took this long means they’re antisemites. Obviously the attacks will move on to something else though and won’t stop.

I think it’s probably made a slight difference to perceptions of the real problem in that as well as those who don’t give a shit but want to attack Corbyn, and those who don’t give a shit but want to defend him, there will also be some people who say “you know there’s a problem I didn’t realise existed here, even if it’s been used for political reasons I’m going to pay attention”. Also labour people may be a bit more wary about who they promote - even if this is just for self serving PR reasons it might help in practice, as long as they’re able to distinguish who to avoid at all which is not guaranteed.

 

[hash tag]

One of the problems was JC not standing up to Livingstone and Livingstone walked. There is the Willsman Issue still lurking in the background which I suspect will help keep this ticking over.

 

[belboid]

Your doubt is well placed.
View attachment 146073

LFI being somewhat short with the truth, horror!

Labour had already adopted the full definition, what was in question were the 11 examples - which most of the 31 adopting countries have't taken up either. Still, facts, eh?

 

[Mr Retro]

Corbyn's handling of all this has been a shambles. It shows he is not fit to run the labour party much less the country.

 

[killer b]

So technically, at the moment, a certain criticism of Israel can get you booted out of the party, unless the new NEC changes things? Or will there be a membership vote?

The examples are explicitly just examples - the wording of the definition allows for context. However, hardly anyone seems to notice the context bit, so it's likely it will have a chilling effect on discussions around Israel & Palestine regardless.

Fairly sure that you can see an immediate example of this chilling effect in the way when Netanyahu came out with a load of shit that could have come straight out of Mein Kampf the other day, hardly anyone made that comparison despite it being totally appropriate in that case.

 

[killer b]

anyway, fwiw.

 

[Toast Rider]

 

[mojo pixy]

One can never Finnish learning about them

I for one know almost nothing about Finnish history .. so Suomi :shrug: