Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[danny la rouge]

D le R ? ( thought he was Scots)

I'm a citizen of Hogwarts. Me and Jo, as I call her, are like this* [* does secret hand signal]. I'm mad for the Union and everything.

 

[killer b]

it's very hard to tease fact from hyperbole and bias in all of this.

It isn't that hard tbf. Try to be aware of your own biases if you're struggling.

 

[hash tag]

The media doesn't look for and report fact it looks for sensationalism.
i see he is all over the Guardian on line this morning. If the Guardian is like that, what's the rest like?
News, sport and opinion from the Guardian's UK edition | The Guardian

 

[butchersapron]

The media doesn't look for and report fact it looks for sensationalism.
i see he is all over the Guardian on line this morning. If the Guardian is like that, what's the rest like?
News, sport and opinion from the Guardian's UK edition | The Guardian

Why have you posted this?

 

[Wilf]

Why have you posted this?

I was going to post up the main article from there:
Labour faces shake-up that will make it easier to deselect MPs

The entirely predictable bit is that the guardian are rolling up the anti-Semitism row with demonising Labour left attempts to get reselection and indeed opposition to the whole Corbyn thing more generally. But on the issue itself they've got Hodge referring to his hatred of the Jews (All the leadership can think about is their internal Labour party and their hatred of Jews … Jeremy has allowed antisemitism and racism to run rife. He needs to renounce much of what he did).

As suggested by others on this thread, to me the real issue is one of the 'left' more widely, an absolute blindness to Hamas and others that was present in the stwc and elsewhere. A deepseated cultural problem if you like, but a kind of personal/political immaturity where you don't have to think of the consequences of sharing platforms, facebook pages and the rest with people who are actively anti-Semitic and, just as importantly, oppressive themselves. It's always difficult to make a break with a culture, but that's what Corbyn should have been doing. I don't really see that he gets that, which just leaves him putting out the same statements about opposing anti-Semitism and racism. And of course Hodge's accusation that he actively hates the Jews ups the anti and keeps the whole thing in crisis management mode.

edit: technically, as a form of words at least, Hodge is right to say 'he needs to renounce much of what he did', though it should really be 'they'.

 

[butchersapron]

I fully agree, but have to point out ante. Unless that was done on purpose - which sort of fits actually.

 

[Wilf]

I fully agree, but have to point out ante. Unless that was done on purpose - which sort of fits actually.

No - but yes it does.

 

[teqniq]

I was going to post up the main article from there:
Labour faces shake-up that will make it easier to deselect MPs

The entirely predictable bit is that the guardian are rolling up the anti-Semitism row with demonising Labour left attempts to get reselection and indeed opposition to the whole Corbyn thing more generally. But on the issue itself they've got Hodge referring to his hatred of the Jews (All the leadership can think about is their internal Labour party and their hatred of Jews … Jeremy has allowed antisemitism and racism to run rife. He needs to renounce much of what he did).

As suggested by others on this thread, to me the real issue is one of the 'left' more widely, an absolute blindness to Hamas and others that was present in the stwc and elsewhere. A deepseated cultural problem if you like, but a kind of personal/political immaturity where you don't have to think of the consequences of sharing platforms, facebook pages and the rest with people who are actively anti-Semitic and, just as importantly, oppressive themselves. It's always difficult to make a break with a culture, but that's what Corbyn should have been doing. I don't really see that he gets that, which just leaves him putting out the same statements about opposing anti-Semitism and racism. And of course Hodge's accusation that he actively hates the Jews ups the anti and keeps the whole thing in crisis management mode.

edit: technically, as a form of words at least, Hodge is right to say 'he needs to renounce much of what he did', though it should really be 'they'.

Whilst I largely agree with what you are saying here particularly with reference to the likes of Hamas, I get a sense that the wreckers within the right of the party and the attendant media support as ably portrayed by the Gruan et al have somewhat massively overcooked the goose. Maybe I'm viewing events through too narrow a lens on Twitter but I see many people who come across as perfectly sensible and not in the least bit anti-semitic who are totally sick and tired of the whole sordid charade. Corbyn hasn't done himself any favours with past associations etc it's true but this is not really about anti-semitism pre se; it is about threats to the established order even reality relatively mild ones such as are being put forward by the current Labour leadership.

 

[butchersapron]

For you maybe, for me it's about those anti-semites hiding behind and within that.

 

[teqniq]

Yes I accept that there is some truth in that yet they seem to be having a hard time producing really damaging credible evidence, that and I think as I have suggested they have overcooked things.

this reply to Hodge sums things things up for me:

Dear Margaret

 

[butchersapron]

Don't click on the international news on that site:

The Syrian refugees want to go home, because Syria is now at peace, and it is safe in most areas, and they could at least get free medical and free education in Syria, as well as work.

 

[teqniq]

Hmmm. I think I might know one of the people responsible for that publication on FB. I might ask if it's him, in light of the reality that is a wildly inaccurate statement. I am guessing the author is an Assadist.

 

[treelover]

Reading elsewhere there are claims motions to Conference to allow members of the SWP to join Labour are being made, mischief making? can't find evidence, it would be a disaster, not just over Comrade Delta, but who they are and how they work.

 

[treelover]

I was going to post up the main article from there:
Labour faces shake-up that will make it easier to deselect MPs

The entirely predictable bit is that the guardian are rolling up the anti-Semitism row with demonising Labour left attempts to get reselection and indeed opposition to the whole Corbyn thing more generally. But on the issue itself they've got Hodge referring to his hatred of the Jews (All the leadership can think about is their internal Labour party and their hatred of Jews … Jeremy has allowed antisemitism and racism to run rife. He needs to renounce much of what he did).

As suggested by others on this thread, to me the real issue is one of the 'left' more widely, an absolute blindness to Hamas and others that was present in the stwc and elsewhere. A deepseated cultural problem if you like, but a kind of personal/political immaturity where you don't have to think of the consequences of sharing platforms, facebook pages and the rest with people who are actively anti-Semitic and, just as importantly, oppressive themselves. It's always difficult to make a break with a culture, but that's what Corbyn should have been doing. I don't really see that he gets that, which just leaves him putting out the same statements about opposing anti-Semitism and racism. And of course Hodge's accusation that he actively hates the Jews ups the anti and keeps the whole thing in crisis management mode.

edit: technically, as a form of words at least, Hodge is right to say 'he needs to renounce much of what he did', though it should really be 'they'.

its actually the Observer, Guardian is a bit less hostile!

as usual you get it, great post.

 

[teqniq]

A bit less? You'd be hard-pressed to fit a ciggie paper between them.

 

[chilango]

, I get a sense that the wreckers within the right of the party and the attendant media support as ably portrayed by the Gruan et al have somewhat massively overcooked the goose. Maybe I'm viewing events through too narrow a lens on Twitter but I see many people who come across as perfectly sensible and not in the least bit anti-semitic who are totally sick and tired of the whole sordid charade. Corbyn hasn't done himself any favours with past associations etc it's true but this is not really about anti-semitism pre se; it is about threats to the established order even reality relatively mild ones such as are being put forward by the current Labour leadership.

Yeah.

The only people I know in everyday life who are biting at this are those whose never vote Labour, nevermind Corbyn, and who jump on board any anti-Labour campaign.

Most people I talk to see an obvious smear campaign and are sick of it. If anything shoring up the Labour vote.

Leaving the very real issue of Corbyn et al's willingness to lie with dogs hangng as people recoil from the crude smears and obvious politico careering that we see daily in the news.

It's very wearying.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah.

The only people I know in everyday life who are biting at this are those whose never vote Labour, nevermind Corbyn, and who jump on board any anti-Labour campaign.

Most people I talk to see an obvious smear campaign and are sick of it. If anything shoring up the Labour vote.

Leaving the very real issue of Corbyn et al's willingness to lie with dogs hangng as people recoil from the crude smears and obvious politico careering that we see daily in the news.

It's very wearying.

It's true that there is hype, opportunism, and smear. But Corbyn has been crap on all fronts. He's crap at dealing with the smears; crap at refuting the equation of criticism of the Israeli state with antisemitism; and crap at dealing with the actual antisemitism.

Take Jim Sheridan, former MP and current councillor. He said he no longer has "empathy for the Jewish community and their historic suffering" because of "what they and their Blairite plotters are doing to my party and the long suffering people of Britain". That was more than three weeks ago. He should have been expelled by now.

As for that matter should Frank Field. And Gapes.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah.

The only people I know in everyday life who are biting at this are those whose never vote Labour, nevermind Corbyn, and who jump on board any anti-Labour campaign.

Most people I talk to see an obvious smear campaign and are sick of it. If anything shoring up the Labour vote.

Leaving the very real issue of Corbyn et al's willingness to lie with dogs hangng as people recoil from the crude smears and obvious politico careering that we see daily in the news.

It's very wearying.

How does it weary you?

 

[Wilf]

Reading elsewhere there are claims motions to Conference to allow members of the SWP to join Labour are being made, mischief making? can't find evidence, it would be a disaster, not just over Comrade Delta, but who they are and how they work.

Perhaps this bit (from the observer link):

One of the most contentious proposals, put forward by five local branches, would scrap a rule put in place when the party was fighting the hard-left Militant group in the 1980s. This makes it an expellable offence to “support a political organisation other than an official Labour group”.

Party insiders said that scrapping the rule would open Labour membership to people in hard-left political organisations such as the Alliance for Workers’ Liberty.

I'd be interested to see precisely what the game is with this - allowing members of specific groups in? Allowing expelled people back - or just keeping up the flow of Corbyn supporting new members? A lot of this though sounds like stuff the Corbynites should have been doing a year ago.

 

[butchersapron]

There ain't no flow. People like this have been in since the start - all 4000 of them.

Letting these people in is def not they should be doing or even having on their radar. I suspect it won't get past arrangements or whatever it is.

 

[butchersapron]

Would be a big boost for the anarchists for labour faction though.

 

[Wilf]

Would be a big boost for the anarchists for labour faction though.

Shudder.

 

[Threshers_Flail]

Most people I talk to see an obvious smear campaign and are sick of it. If anything shoring up the Labour vote.

This is my impression as well, very easy for Labour people to dismiss the whole debacle as a smear when the media have been so shrill in reporting about it. This probably does let Corbyn off the hook in some ways, as he has been absolutely awful in combating the actual antisemitism in the party. Hardly fills you with confidence in how he and his government would fair if they actually did get elected.

 

[chilango]

How does it weary you?

The monotonous drone of the smear campaign.

The grinding dispiriting reminders that the Left is fucked and full of people I want nothing to do with.

 

[brogdale]

The monotonous drone of the smear campaign.

The grinding dispiriting reminders that the Left is fucked and full of people I want nothing to do with.

Having spent a year trying, that resonates massively.

 

[Shechemite]

A number of my friends are on the ‘people vs the government, DWP and ATOS’ FB group.

Is this also run by Mike Sivier. It promotes a lot of his articles, plus a lot of ‘anti-Zionist’ stuff.

Today it’s been promoting this article from ‘redpress’, decrying the attempts to ‘ruin the careers’ of Atzmon and Chabloz

 

[Shechemite]

Or rather that should be ‘redressonline’, who also happen to have Gilad Atzmon as one of their contributors

 

[Wilf]

There ain't no flow. People like this have been in since the start - all 4000 of them.

Letting these people in is def not they should be doing or even having on their radar. I suspect it won't get past arrangements or whatever it is.

Oh, I agree, I was just wondering what was the intention of those CLPs putting these rule changes forward.

 

[Knotted]

Atzmon can sell homself as a critic of Israel to the unwary. Chabloz is openly fascist. Defending her is directly courting an alliance with fascists.

 

[Shechemite]

Well quite