Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[kebabking]

How successful was Labour under previous leaders at rooting out the dodgy people?

I was a member from about 2005 to 2017, I was 'active' and knocked doors, went to meetings and did all the social stuff, but I wasn't a branch official.

They always existed, but apart from a few loons trying to get selected as candidates every few years, the party simply wasn't their main focus - they would be members of the party in the same way that I'm a member of the RSPB, a bit part of who I am, but not something I get involved in week-to-week.

A much larger group of unsavouries were known Labour voters but not members, and you'd hear their twattery when you knocked on doors at election time, but you said 'thanks' and moved on - they weren't a large group within the electorate or the Labour vote, but they were evident.

Once Corbyn stood there were three effects - firstly people joining the party who were previously 'unsavoury Labour voters', people joining who we'd never even got down a Labour voters who voiced opinions that had 'deeply unsavoury' written all over them from the start, and those who were the 'oddballs' who were already Labour members, but not engaged ones, who became a lot more outspoken about views that they previously only muttered very occasionally.

From where I sat, it was heartbreakingly simple - they saw that Labour was now a place they could feel comfortable. Before Corbyn, the party didn't have to work very hard to keep them out, or get them out, because (broadly) Labour wasn't something they wanted to join.

Other CLP's may have had different experiences...

 

[treelover]

Can you expand on 'unsavoury'

 

[teqniq]

 

[Shechemite]

UNSAVOURY

to expand further

 

[danny la rouge]

Great idea for a thread.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I was a member from about 2005 to 2017, I was 'active' and knocked doors, went to meetings and did all the social stuff, but I wasn't a branch official.

They always existed, but apart from a few loons trying to get selected as candidates every few years, the party simply wasn't their main focus - they would be members of the party in the same way that I'm a member of the RSPB, a bit part of who I am, but not something I get involved in week-to-week.

A much larger group of unsavouries were known Labour voters but not members, and you'd hear their twattery when you knocked on doors at election time, but you said 'thanks' and moved on - they weren't a large group within the electorate or the Labour vote, but they were evident.

Once Corbyn stood there were three effects - firstly people joining the party who were previously 'unsavoury Labour voters', people joining who we'd never even got down a Labour voters who voiced opinions that had 'deeply unsavoury' written all over them from the start, and those who were the 'oddballs' who were already Labour members, but not engaged ones, who became a lot more outspoken about views that they previously only muttered very occasionally.

From where I sat, it was heartbreakingly simple - they saw that Labour was now a place they could feel comfortable. Before Corbyn, the party didn't have to work very hard to keep them out, or get them out, because (broadly) Labour wasn't something they wanted to join.

Other CLP's may have had different experiences...

Mate, whilst we are handing out the savoury awards you were disturbing people’s evenings on a regular basis on behalf of basically red tories!

 

[TopCat]

I was a member from about 2005 to 2017, I was 'active' and knocked doors, went to meetings and did all the social stuff, but I wasn't a branch official.

They always existed, but apart from a few loons trying to get selected as candidates every few years, the party simply wasn't their main focus - they would be members of the party in the same way that I'm a member of the RSPB, a bit part of who I am, but not something I get involved in week-to-week.

A much larger group of unsavouries were known Labour voters but not members, and you'd hear their twattery when you knocked on doors at election time, but you said 'thanks' and moved on - they weren't a large group within the electorate or the Labour vote, but they were evident.

Once Corbyn stood there were three effects - firstly people joining the party who were previously 'unsavoury Labour voters', people joining who we'd never even got down a Labour voters who voiced opinions that had 'deeply unsavoury' written all over them from the start, and those who were the 'oddballs' who were already Labour members, but not engaged ones, who became a lot more outspoken about views that they previously only muttered very occasionally.

From where I sat, it was heartbreakingly simple - they saw that Labour was now a place they could feel comfortable. Before Corbyn, the party didn't have to work very hard to keep them out, or get them out, because (broadly) Labour wasn't something they wanted to join.

Other CLP's may have had different experiences...

What made you leave Labour?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Ah, more succinct people got in first haha

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

What made you leave Labour?

Lack of salty crisps?

 

[danny la rouge]

I hope Labour canvassers come round here. I'm going to say I won't be voting Labour because "I've got nothing against the Jews".

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

 

[Gramsci]

Labour party canvassers have been coming around my neighborhood. One of my longstanding Labour Cllrs died and so election is happening to fill seat. This is Coldharbour ward covering Brixton area in London. The Council is Lambeth.

The main rivals are Greens who have taken seats off Labour at last Council elections. Lambeth is still controlled by New Labour.

Anti semitism is not an issue in my area. Ive been chatting to Labour voters and members I know. Some vote Green in Lambeth as they can't stomach New Labour. They vote Labour at national elections as Corbyn is in charge. They can't stomach New Labour as they close libraries and want to "regenerate" Council estates. Bread and butter issues.

They are lukewarm Corbyn supporters. As one Labour party member said they are old Labour. Between Corbyn and Blairites.

The view I've got is that whilst they sort of support Corbyn in lukewarm the way he is being attacked for anti semitism makes them feel he's been attacked unfairly.

As friend said ,who at last general election thought Corbyn would be disaster and now thinks he did well, thinks now the only reason he is being attacked now is because he supports Palestinians.

Supporting Palestinians isn't some far left thing.

I've heard this from several people who are what I would call lukewarm supporters of Corbyn.

The anti Semitic allegations against him are annoying them now as old Labour supporters.

 

[kebabking]

Can you expand on 'unsavoury'

In this context it would mainly relate to 'the Israeli lobby', 'international finance' and all the other tropes - it wasn't particularly focused on Palestine, it would be brought out regarding pretty much any area of policy where the loon in question disagreed with Government/party policy.

On Palestine it would be far less nuanced - 'Hitler had the right idea' wouldn't be unusual from a loon, 'fucking Jewish cunts' would be a fairly regular phrase heard from the more mainstream, but not the majority, if in the bar/pub after a branch/CLP meeting while anything Palestinian or wider ME thing was going on.

That's broadly representative of four CLP's I've been involved with from North Yorkshire, through Worcestershire to Wiltshire/Hampshire.

 

[William of Walworth]

Did you catch any of the fascists & conspiracy theorists they had on?

Good question and I was vaguely aware of some iffy conspiracist presence

I was never going to either respect, or even check out, Vanessa Beeley

I wanted to catch Rachel Shabi's contribution, but in the end she wasn't there

Tatchell and Williamson were OK though.

Piers Corbyn is a nutjob on climate, and he was entertainingly destroyed by the Exeter meteorology expert (Richard Betts)

Actual fascists though? Were there any at BD, really?
We weren't around at that tent at the time, if so.
But I'm most likely failing to recognise names ....

 

[treelover]

In this context it would mainly relate to 'the Israeli lobby', 'international finance' and all the other tropes - it wasn't particularly focused on Palestine, it would be brought out regarding pretty much any area of policy where the loon in question disagreed with Government/party policy.

On Palestine it would be far less nuanced - 'Hitler had the right idea' wouldn't be unusual from a loon, 'fucking Jewish cunts' would be a fairly regular phrase heard from the more mainstream, but not the majority, if in the bar/pub after a branch/CLP meeting while anything Palestinian or wider ME thing was going on.

That's broadly representative of four CLP's I've been involved with from North Yorkshire, through Worcestershire to Wiltshire/Hampshire.

any comment like that in my branch, they would be out the door and out of the party.

 

[killer b]

I'm not sure if I would respect or check out any 'rebel' event that had Beeley speaking at any point in their programme tbf. I guess it must have been better than seeing any of the bands that were playing, mind.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I'm not sure if I would respect or check out any 'rebel' event that had Beeley speaking at any point in their programme tbf. I guess it must have been better than seeing any of the bands that were playing, mind.

Gogol Bordello though!

 

[William of Walworth]

I'm not sure if I would respect or check out any 'rebel' event that had Beeley speaking at any point in their programme tbf. I guess it must have been better than seeing any of the bands that were playing, mind.

I was well fucked off with Beeley being there too.

But other, better people were there too at different times.
Glenn Jenkins once Exodus, now Leviticus, was the main Rebel Tent organiser. Make of that what you want.

As for (not so) Beautiful Bands, we've had much better lineups than this year, but we and friends are hardcores who go every year anyway.

We're old like that
Goodnight ...

 

[DotCommunist]

I see the Jacobin owner has bought Tribunes name and details and plans to re launch the labour left magazine. First I've heard of said publication, was it crap?

 

[butchersapron]

Labour party canvassers have been coming around my neighborhood. One of my longstanding Labour Cllrs died and so election is happening to fill seat. This is Coldharbour ward covering Brixton area in London. The Council is Lambeth.

The main rivals are Greens who have taken seats off Labour at last Council elections. Lambeth is still controlled by New Labour.

Anti semitism is not an issue in my area. Ive been chatting to Labour voters and members I know. Some vote Green in Lambeth as they can't stomach New Labour. They vote Labour at national elections as Corbyn is in charge. They can't stomach New Labour as they close libraries and want to "regenerate" Council estates. Bread and butter issues.

They are lukewarm Corbyn supporters. As one Labour party member said they are old Labour. Between Corbyn and Blairites.

The view I've got is that whilst they sort of support Corbyn in lukewarm the way he is being attacked for anti semitism makes them feel he's been attacked unfairly.

As friend said ,who at last general election thought Corbyn would be disaster and now thinks he did well, thinks now the only reason he is being attacked now is because he supports Palestinians.

Supporting Palestinians isn't some far left thing.

I've heard this from several people who are what I would call lukewarm supporters of Corbyn.

The anti Semitic allegations against him are annoying them now as old Labour supporters.

So it's had zero electoral effect?

The main thing is palestine though for them and corbyn being attacked unfairly? Not the kicking people out of their homes and that? Fucking london...

 

[butchersapron]

I see the Jacobin owner has bought Tribunes name and details and plans to re launch the labour left magazine. First I've heard of said publication, was it crap?

It was good for a few years when nye was a lion in the 50s. Then mayve a few years in the 80s. Utter dross otherwise. I used to dread every other friday having to even skim read it. Made Freedom look like anarchist nutters.

 

[DotCommunist]

well i'll no doubt pick up/read online at some point. Although I assumed New Socialist was going into print at some point as the house mag of the labour left, but what do I know.

 

[Gramsci]

So it's had zero electoral effect?

The main thing is palestine though for them and corbyn being attacked unfairly? Not the kicking people out of their homes and that? Fucking london...

I would say at local election level the Labour party anti semitism issue is having zero effect in my bit of London on Labour vote. It might be different in other parts of London.

At local level what is happening with housing, libraries and parks/ open spaces are the issues that concern people.

So I would not say Palestine is main issue its one issue among others.

 

[Toast Rider]

Shit, but so what?

Indeed, but this has exploded on Corbyn's watch. Some of that, it seems clear, falls on his shoulders. Some of it doesn't because this wasn't the crisis it is now, or is portrayed as now, under Blair, Brown, or Miliband - to the best of my knowledge.

Now obviuosly racist idiots on demos, at the local level, fringe left/hard left outliers - however you describe them - should be addressed. As should any instance of racism (by anyone anywhere). But as I said, it's very hard to tease fact from hyperbole and bias in all of this.

 

[cantsin]

I forget how I heard of him. I think butchersapron probably told me who he was.

He's v noisy on twitter, + a proper div

 

[cantsin]

I hope Labour canvassers come round here. I'm going to say I won't be voting Labour because "I've got nothing against the Jews".

You sounds like Dan Hodges or JK Rowling or something there, impressive

 

[butchersapron]

He's a stalinist goon and the only working class person in london.

edit: and a poster of course

 

[cantsin]

He's a stalinist goon and the only working class person in london.

edit: and a poster of course

D le R ? ( thought he was Scots)

 

[Wilf]

View attachment 145671

"Disagreeable to smell, taste or look at" - my next tagline.

 

[Mr Smin]

not sure what you mean by " he really should be able to own a debate about Israel/Palestine " ? how could Corbyn "own' the debate, vs approx 600 MPs, the entire MSM etc, who are dictating the shape and

Seriously, how do you suggest Corbyn, or anyone else 'owns' this situation ?

I think he should step up and say something more eloquent than, but basically along the lines of, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And give a good argument on behalf of Palestinians taking up arms.
I do mean a debate rather than the debate, specifically when being interviewed one on one by a journalist. I think trying to make any subtle argument in the commons chamber is a waste of time.