Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[SpookyFrank]

Frank Field resigns over anti semitism.

Resigns over the fact he was about to be deselected more like.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Veteran MP Frank Field quits Labour whip

'Specialist in welfare issues'

 

[Treacle Toes]

Frank Field resigns as Labour MP citing antisemitism and 'bullying'

Mr Field's dramatic resignation comes just weeks after his own Birkenhead Constituency Party passed a no confidence motion in him after he was one of a handful of Labour MPs to help Theresa May avoid an embarrassing defeat over her Brexit plans.

He has often found himself at odds with some of his local Labour membership - not just for his long-held Eurosceptic beliefs, but also for writing columns in the S*n newspaper, which is reviled across Merseyside.

^^^^ What OJ is talking about.

 

[redsquirrel]

Frank Field resigns over anti semitism.

Over his CLP trying to oust him you mean.

 

[Ponyutd]

Resigns over the fact he was about to be deselected more like.

Quite.

 

[oryx]

If it's true that Field has gone before he was deselected (as I think and as several people on here think) his ostensible reason for resigning the Labour whip is a pretty awful trivialisation of racism.

 

[agricola]

If it's true that Field has gone before he was deselected (as I think and as several people on here think) his ostensible reason for resigning the Labour whip is a pretty awful trivialisation of racism.

It is, though its probably a lot more palatable to him than "I have done this so I can facilitate May and her notion of Brexit" is.

 

[Toast Rider]

Saw that today, hardly a win for Dempsey was it?

Maybe not, but the pearl clutching on the part of his interlocutor is quite something.

 

[teqniq]

 

[Mr Moose]

It is, though its probably a lot more palatable to him than "I have done this so I can facilitate May and her notion of Brexit" is.

Deluded and long past his use by date whatever the reason. Registering less than 1 on the political Richter scale.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

View attachment 145549

Maybe Wes Streeting would like to fuck right off as well.

 

[teqniq]

If they vote in deselection at the conference I foresee a fair bit of ship-jumping.

 

[Pickman's model]

If it's true that Field has gone before he was deselected (as I think and as several people on here think) his ostensible reason for resigning the Labour whip is a pretty awful trivialisation of racism.

If this was his reason for going he'd have been off months or even a couple of years ago, the lying auld goat

 

[danny la rouge]

That Eddie Dempsey video people are sharing round like it's some incredible slam-dunk is dreadful. Embarrassing.

I persevered for 8 minutes. Which is far longer than I wanted to. Was still waiting for the good bit to come up. No, they need to do much better than that. That was just denying there was an issue. There is an issue. Of course there's opportunism from Corbyn's opponents. But if there wasn't a hook they could hang it on, it'd fall to the floor.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Comparing Corbyn’s comments to Powell’s ‘rivers of blood’ is offensive
The former chief rabbi’s claim is ridiculous. It takes a special kind of amnesia to forget how vile that speech was

Comparing Corbyn’s comments to Powell’s ‘rivers of blood’ is offensive | Kehinde Andrews

 

[oryx]

If this was his reason for going he'd have been off months or even a couple of years ago, the lying auld goat

Yes, precisely what I thought - this whole shitshow has been going on for a couple of years.

 

[William of Walworth]

If they vote in deselection at the conference I foresee a fair bit of ship-jumping.

Chris Williamson (MP) is himself in favour of mandatory reselection, and strongly so -- I personally heard him say so at Beautiful Days Rebel Tent**

**Far too late for me to go back to some much earlier thread posts on this thread about this tent

 

[killer b]

Did you catch any of the fascists & conspiracy theorists they had on?

 

[Wilf]

Leaving aside this latest video, regardless of ones interpretation of it, there are three strands that some people seem to find it difficult to disentangle.

1. The disingenuous labelling of all criticism of the Israeli state, its actions and policies, as necessarily anti-Semitic.

2. The actual anti-semitism that exists on the left, often associated with Palestinian solidarity (which does not have to be anti-Semitic); the blind eye turned to it; the dodgy alliances thereby arrived at.

3. The use made of both of the above by anti Corbyn forces inside and outside of the Labour Party.

Corbyn and his team are at the very least accident-prone on dealing with this. They are especially inept at dealing with 1 and 3 because of 2.

We've all seen 2. It does us no favours to keep saying "but 1" or "but 3". At some point, we on the broader left, and the Labour left and leadership in particular, need to deal with 2, and decisively.

Well said. This is a debate where it should be easy for everyone on the left to see that 1-3 all exist and are happening at once, but very few can. The more you see of 2, the more you despair - things Corbyn ignored that were happening around him or, more importantly, things that seemed to have been hardwired into the left for years. Then in parallel the absurd claims about Powell parallels, existential threats, 'fear', it's all deeply shit. But most of all, it's embarrassing that the left can't manage the analysis, the self confidence, the basic common sense necessary to establish a position around 1-3 that allows some kind of progress.

 

[hipipol]

I suspect Jezza has spent too many years in ultra split-ist splinter groups trying to hold back the inherent centrifugal forces to stand up and make ANY absolute statement - highly skilled, dissembling, mumble rap artiste not much cop as a leader shocker

 

[butchersapron]

He's been in the labour party for 60 years. Not ultra splitist splinter groups.

 

[killer b]

I suspect Jezza has spent too many years in ultra split-ist splinter groups trying to hold back the inherent centrifugal forces to stand up and make ANY absolute statement - highly skilled, dissembling, mumble rap artiste not much cop as a leader shocker

I suddenly find my confidence in Corbyn as leader renewed.

 

[Toast Rider]

I asked something similar before, but a labour leader what can he do about this? I don't see those on the right, Jewish or otherwise, being satisifed with anything he says. I also don't see how he can really stop people thinking stupid stuff given how deep rooted some of this appears to be. If he (as he'll get the blame) starts evicting members then that will be used against him. This whole thing seems so utterly fucked up to me that I see no way forward. Anything he does, says or has done/said will be fetched up against him.

 

[brogdale]

Anything he does, says or has done/said will be fetched up against him.

Of course. It's whether any of it sticks (electorally) that matters.

 

[killer b]

Booting out the racist cranks should be a priority regardless of its electoral significance shouldn't it?

 

[teqniq]

 

[danny la rouge]

I asked something similar before, but a labour leader what can he do about this? I don't see those on the right, Jewish or otherwise, being satisifed with anything he says. I also don't see how he can really stop people thinking stupid stuff given how deep rooted some of this appears to be. If he (as he'll get the blame) starts evicting members then that will be used against him. This whole thing seems so utterly fucked up to me that I see no way forward. Anything he does, says or has done/said will be fetched up against him.

He's got himself to the point where he doesn't have many places to turn. For example, even though there are sensible, non-racist objections to some of the IHRA definition examples, the NEC can't discuss them without being seen as the anti-Semitic dinosaurs locking horns with the "progressive" PLP. But let's be clear about this, he has done this. He has presided over this state of affairs.

What he needs is a better story. It's all about having a good story. Even without media support, if he has a good story they'll run it. They'll still run the anti stuff. But if his story is good, then people will hear it.

Don't get me wrong. He needs to do real things. He needs to weed out the anti-semites. He needs to do it publicly and decisively. He needs to find a way of atoning for his past mistakes that leaves him with face, that re-establishes his decent man image. He needs to break ties. He needs to re-mould thinking. And much more.

But he needs a good story. So how can he build a story? Well, as a pointer, look what Blair did with Clause 4. He sold it as breaking with old Labour. Renouncing socialism. It wasn't what he sold it as, of course, but it was a symbol that the media understood and looked at as a good story. It did the job.

Corbyn can't use adopting the IHRA definition, because it already looks like he's being forced into it. He needs something that looks like his idea that he's having to fight the dinosaurs to get adopted. He needs to find something credible, something that isn't too fuzzy with caveats, and something that isn't defensive but rather puts him in the role of the one taking positive action. And it needs to be executed competently.

Personally I don't think he's up to the job. But that's what he needs to do.

 

[Toast Rider]

Booting out the racist cranks should be a priority regardless of its electoral significance shouldn't it?

Do they know who they are in a solidly provable way?

 

[Toast Rider]

He's got himself to the point where he doesn't have many places to turn. For example, even though there are sensible, non-racist objections to some of the IHRA definition examples, the NEC can't discuss them without being seen as the anti-Semitic dinosaurs locking horns with the "progressive" PLP. But let's be clear about this, he has done this. He has presided over this state of affairs.

What he needs is a better story. It's all about having a good story. Even without media support, if he has a good story they'll run it. They'll still run the anti stuff. But if his story is good, then people will hear it.

Don't get me wrong. He needs to do real things. He needs to weed out the anti-semites. He needs to do it publicly and decisively. He needs to find a way of atoning for his past mistakes that leaves him with face, that re-establishes his decent man image. He needs to break ties. He needs to re-mould thinking. And much more.

But he needs a good story. So how can he build a story? Well, as a pointer, look what Blair did with Clause 4. He sold it as breaking with old Labour. Renouncing socialism. It wasn't what he sold it as, of course, but it was a symbol that the media understood and looked at as a good story. It did the job.

Corbyn can't use adopting the IHRA definition, because it already looks like he's being forced into it. He needs something that looks like his idea that he's having to fight the dinosaurs to get adopted. He needs to find something credible, something that isn't too fuzzy with caveats, and something that isn't defensive but rather puts him in the role of the one taking positive action. And it needs to be executed competently.

Personally I don't think he's up to the job. But that's what he needs to do.

I accept what you're saying, but I'm struggling with this. I'm not seeing how he has done this, as you say. Certainly he is presiding over it. But is it really fair to lay out all at his feet?

Which isn't to say he can't or shouldn't do more

I find it very difficult to separate the truth from the hyperbole surrounding this, perpetrated/spun by his opponents

 

[kebabking]

I asked something similar before, but a labour leader what can he do about this? I don't see those on the right, Jewish or otherwise, being satisifed with anything he says. I also don't see how he can really stop people thinking stupid stuff given how deep rooted some of this appears to be. If he (as he'll get the blame) starts evicting members then that will be used against him. This whole thing seems so utterly fucked up to me that I see no way forward. Anything he does, says or has done/said will be fetched up against him.

Perhaps that's the price he now has to pay for having 30+ years of consequence-free swimming in sewers?

The easiest way to discern the 'truth' of this situation is to reverse it: if, after 40 years of being a Tory party member, MP, Home Secretary and PM, Theresa May was deep in the political mire over her support for crony capitalism, shit welfare 'reforms', and all the rest - and then declared that in fact she was a lifelong socialist in the hope that the bad headlines would stop - would anyone believe her, or indeed care, citing the fact that she'd been quite happy to go against pretty much every principle of socialism during her career?

I have no sympathy for Corbyn or his position - yes the anti-Semitism stuff is being used as a weapon against him by his political opponents, but that's only possible because he has, for the last 30+ years, been happily stocking up their armouries with this stuff thinking there would never be a reckoning for building a career out of skirting the conspiraloon/anti-Semitic/deeply unsavoury cesspits on the world.