Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[killer b]

I'm not sure, but if it could truly be dealt with in an afternoon, it likely would have been. I think they've dealt with things badly, but there's also so much we just aren't party to.

Livingstone for eg had some of the heaviest lawyers in the country on it for him: more than anything else I imagine this is what dragged things out with him.

 

[8ball]

Ones which conflate the state of Israel with Jewish people in general.

It feels like that to me (as someone who hasn't read into it in any depth).

 

[8ball]

Flipping heck. No more growing veg for you JC.

Barnet Council begins discussion about stripping Jeremy Corbyn of his allotment over Labour Party antisemitism

This is pretty barking.

 

[killer b]

Wouldn't it be best to read it in some kind of depth before saying what it feels like to you? Let's be honest, people firing off about what it feels like to them after not reading into it in any depth is half of the problem...

 

[8ball]

Wouldn't it be best to read it in some kind of depth before saying what it feels like to you? Let's be honest, people firing off about what it feels like to them after not reading into it in any depth is half of the problem...

Ok. The points I looked at on a couple of links yesterday were pointing that way. If you have a counter-example I’d be happy to hear it.

 

[killer b]

There's plenty of antisemites who also conflate the state of Israel with the Jewish people. So a list of examples of things that could (not do) constitute antisemitism is bound to include some reference to the state of Israel.

 

[8ball]

There's plenty of antisemites who also conflate the state of Israel with the Jewish people. So a list of examples of things that could (not do) constitute antisemitism is bound to include some reference to the state of Israel.

So no counter-examples? Just the statement that people who criticise Israel might also be anti-semitic?

 

[killer b]

Did you read this thread I posted the other day? He deals with the contentious definitions from post 18 onwards. I think he's about right too.

Adam Wagner's thread here about the Labour/Jews clusterfuck is a good one (he's usually worth reading on the topic).

 

[8ball]

Did you read this thread I posted the other day? He deals with the contentious definitions from post 18 onwards. I think he's about right too.

Hmm, ok. So that would suggest that all the Labour party did was bring in a little brevity and clarity that might make disciplinary proceedings less of a legalistic mess of appeals.

Maybe they would have been better off just going with the IHRA thing and being done with it, but I suspect they were wary of any criticism of Israel being turned back on them as an example of anti-semitism.

The last example is pretty muddled, anyway.

 

[agricola]

Hmm, ok. So that would suggest that all the Labour party did was bring in a little brevity and clarity that might make disciplinary proceedings less of a legalistic mess of appeals.

To be honest that is probably impossible; the volume of complaints / disciplinary issues is such that they need to bite the bullet and properly fund some form of internal organization that can actually do these investigations in a reasonable timeframe and to a legally acceptable standard (ie: not fixed one way or the other).

 

[killer b]

It's going to be a long summer, lads.

https://t.co/FwyMZYsaMq

(That said, everything I've heard about Pete Willsman suggests that his ejection from any positions of authority and influence on the left can only be a good thing in the long run)

 

[treelover]

Willsman made some incredibly sexist comments at one of the first big Momentum meetings here, i think a couple of other urbanites were there and may recall,

on the radio, there was a comment that someone has been suspended for saying, 'Jews drink blood!' 'Jews drink blood:' Britain’s Labour Party suspends councillor for Facebook post

he is denying it.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Willsman made some incredibly sexist comments at one of the first big Momentum meetings here, i think a couple of other urbanites were there and may recall,

on the radio, there was a comment that someone has been suspended for saying, 'Jews drink blood!' 'Jews drink blood:' Britain’s Labour Party suspends councillor for Facebook post

he is denying it.

"He removed the post and told the Jewish Chronicle that he had not posted it and that he lived in a shared house and has a computer that does not have passwords."

looks like he's not been doing his share of the washing up....I´m not sure such a lame excuse inspires confidence in his abilities as a councillor...I hope he treats his constituents' data with a little more respect.

 

[classicdish]

he is denying it.

The trouble is people have now been all over his social media and found previous shit he has posted as well.

 

[killer b]

Ah, that councillor is over already, he's done for whatever. It's Willsman today, probably tomorrow and wednesday too, depending when they throw him under the bus. Then, who knows?

 

[Shechemite]

Fuck em

 

[Brownglass]

I voted for Corbyn. I don't think he has covered himself in glory over the past few months and was virtually absent on the eu debate. This has possibly cost a lot of remain votes. His time is up. He should go. Give the party time to elect a leader and sort themselves out before the next election.

Yet, he is still here!
Maybe liberals should fuck off to the washed up lib dems.
Antisemitism-Accept that Israel exists and will continue to do so.
The only Jewish state, in their original homeland, Arab Muslims should be integrated into surrounding Arab Muslim countries, and compensation paid.
End of!

 

[treelover]

The trouble is people have now been all over his social media and found previous shit he has posted as well.

Where were these people in the past, are they new to the LP? I can't say i heard much of this in the past, only SWP defending Islamists who gave out flyers about Israel which were definitely A/S.

 

[Brownglass]

Where were these people in the past, are they new to the LP? I can't say i heard much of this in the past, only SWP defending Islamists who gave out flyers about Israel which were definitely A/S.

Yes, isn't remarkably strange how "anti-semites" have taken over the Labour party in the last couple of years, even though JC has been an MP for nearly 40 years!

 

[bimble]

Its really not a good look that JC was apparently sat there in silence whilst this Willsman said what he did at the NEC meeting.

 

[killer b]

Where were these people in the past, are they new to the LP? I can't say i heard much of this in the past, only SWP defending Islamists who gave out flyers about Israel which were definitely A/S.

Some are longstanding labour members who're having the light shone on them for the first time, most are (I think) from the wider left who were pulled into the party by Corbyn.

Seymour wrote this in March, nothing has really changed since then:

Antisemitism may not be more prevalent on the Left, but there are specific types, articulations, which I would assert from experience are more likely to appear on, or in the peripheries of, the Left. For example, it may come in the form of a conspiracy theory about "the elite", or in the form of a certain kind of anti-Zionism. August Bebel dubbed antisemitism of this kind the "socialism of fools", because it was offered as an ersatz, racist theory of class and political domination.

Beyond these types of overt antisemitism, there is a kind of tone deafness that is probably particular to the Left, and comes with a sense of brittle self-righteousness. Think of a long-standing anti-Zionist activist choosing a Jewish Voice for Labour meeting to defend the right to 'free speech' about the Holocaust. Think of a Jewish socialist ranting about "Zios". Think of an experienced socialist, rebutting claims of antisemitism by saying "I've never seen any". Think of a former mayor of London firing off about the Havaara agreement in the worst possible way, and pointedly not taking any criticism. Think of people gatecrashing a Jewish Labour Movement meeting to make a futile intervention against the 'Zionist lobby'.

It's not that any of these people are antisemites, although some of them have become bunkered and cranky through years of political isolation. Rather, some people have cultivated a kind of gratuitous and performative political 'toughness', and defend this fragile 'toughness' as if it was the same thing as rigour and hard-headedness. And in a context in which we have not seen organised antisemitism of any significant scale for a long time, and in which those with democratic and internationalist objections to Zionism have often been stigmatised as antisemitic, it has been easy for some people to become dismissive of the whole issue. But that complacency was wrong then, and it is a liability now.

 

[butchersapron]

I was shown some horrifying stuff on sunday - facebook posts from corbyn supporting labour groups saying the jews would have no reason to complain and could leave the country when JC wins the next election and then he turns on them to punish them for attempting to stop him - loads of stuff along those lines and picking up likes as well. Including one - depending on how you view it and what the unclear intention was - much respected ex-poster from here. Stuff from this last weekend not from a decade ago.

 

[danny la rouge]

I was shown some horrifying stuff on sunday - facebook posts from corbyn supporting labour groups saying the jews would have no reason to complain and could leave the country when JC wins the next election and then he turns on them to punish them for attempting to stop him - loads of stuff along those lines and picking up likes as well. Including one - depending on how you view it and what the unclear intention was - much respected ex-poster from here. Stuff from this last weekend not from a decade ago.

Fucking hell.

 

[bimble]

Yep,i saw that stuff too. Also if labour lose the next election jews should watch out as there will be a backlash by the millions who voted for him etc. The skwawkbox link that it seemed to be based on has now been deleted.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep,i saw that stuff too. Also if labour lose the next election jews should watch out as there will be a backlash by the millions who voted for him etc. The skwawkbox link that it seemed to be based on has now been deleted.

Oh yes, that was the piece under discussion - here it is:

The Jewish ‘war against Corbyn’ risks bringing real antisemitism to Britain

And what if Corbyn losses by a narrow margin? How will the millions who voted for him see the Jewish community and its three-year campaign to brand him toxic?

The ‘Jewish War Against Corbyn’ is not good Jewish communal politics. It’s playing with fire.

 

[butchersapron]

Just to make clear this was a piece that the skwakbox endorsed in a tweet rather than being published by them.

 

[Yossarian]

End of!

I don't think that's going to be the end of the Middle East debate.

 

[danny la rouge]

Oh yes, that was the piece under discussion - here it is:

The Jewish ‘war against Corbyn’ risks bringing real antisemitism to Britain

Jesus. Talk about toxic, this stuff is worthy of Der Sturmer. "They've only got themselves to blame".

Who is Robert AH Cohen?

 

[butchersapron]

Jesus. Talk about toxic, this stuff is worthy of Der Sturmer. "They've only got themselves to blame".

Who is Robert AH Cohen?

Don't know but he's certainly Jewish - which they imagine gives them 100% cover for their actions. They knew damn well what that title would mean, it was almost a wink - and the stuff i was shown made clear that the winkees understood that too.

 

[butchersapron]

...and of course, the skwakbox editor has now been reported to labour for anti-semitism. Round we go.