DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
fair to say he's had a habit of questionable company in the anti-imperialist left isn't it. No it won't sink him but its a shitty look.
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBH if any Tory MP had been caught posting on Facebook six years ago a message to a graffiti artist in which he mis-spelt the name of another artist and the bloke who commissioned the other artist then I'm sure the response would be confusion, rather than allegations of Nazism.
Well... it's better than beforewhoops sorry that's just a bit of it
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
He has been a little bit of a mini-Nazi by sacking a man for his opinion, counter-policy or not it's not the Labour way.
yes it is. He sacked Chris Williamson - one of his staunchest allies - a few weeks ago for freelance policymaking. That's how cabinets work, unless you're too weak to be able to do it without collapsing your leadership (like May now, or Corbyn in 2016)
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I think its more that the opinion is daft rather than the opinion itself - as if the way to deal with a massive crisis caused by a referendum ran by David Cameron is to have another referendum, but run by Owen Smith and his ilk.
It is even more inane than their leave, but stay in the Single Market and Customs Union chatter.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
It also seems to be being done in the lead up to the local elections, given the way in which Smith has been backed up by dead end remainer Labour MPs who have all apparently forgotten about cabinet collective responsibility makes me wonder whether this isn't a way of potentially depressing the turnout of the disaffected remain voters who might otherwise deliver significant results for Labour.
Centrist bellend twitter celebrity twlldn wrote a piece about this in 2015 - I disagree with them most of the time, but you can't argue with this bit:
compare and contrast with Corbyn's statement...
The Socialism of fools. – Twll Dun – Medium
compare and contrast with Corbyn's statement...
The Socialism of fools. – Twll Dun – Medium
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Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
It is convention that when you take a position on the front benches you sign up to collective responsibility - that is you support the party line, you support official party policy, and you don't break from that line. If you wish to criticise party policy you do so from the back benches. Right or wrong, that's simply how it's done, and it's rather disingenuous to cherry pick whose sacking is acceptable on those terms and whose is not.
scifisam
deleted
I think he was fairly naive in some ways (hopefully he's less so now). He did need to learn more about anti-semitism but he's not a fucking Nazi. Minorities of various kinds would be safer under him than under someone like Owen Smith or the Tories or LibDems but he needs better advisors.
And if it were a Tory it'd be no big deal at all. People "hold Labour to a higher standard." That's understandable in some ways but it leads to fucking Tory bigots getting elected.
The artist in this is the sort of total bellend that could paint something like that and genuinely not realise it's extremely antisemitic. He probably just thinks that's what conspiratorial bankers are traditionally drawn to look like, not considering why they were originally drawn that way. Look through his Facebook feed - he's the type of well-intentioned but extremely superficial twat that we occasionally get on here. Vague anti-racist stuff, lots of anti-capitalist stuff, conspiraloon nonsense etc. But he's also SO confident in his beliefs that he loves that anti-Semitic picture of his rather than admitting he got it wrong. Wanker. I think I've met him in various different forms twenty times this year and I don't get out much.
Yeah, but this was in the specific context of murals in Tower Hamlets relating to Judaism, so it's not exactly out of the blue, is it?
And if it were a Tory it'd be no big deal at all. People "hold Labour to a higher standard." That's understandable in some ways but it leads to fucking Tory bigots getting elected.
The artist in this is the sort of total bellend that could paint something like that and genuinely not realise it's extremely antisemitic. He probably just thinks that's what conspiratorial bankers are traditionally drawn to look like, not considering why they were originally drawn that way. Look through his Facebook feed - he's the type of well-intentioned but extremely superficial twat that we occasionally get on here. Vague anti-racist stuff, lots of anti-capitalist stuff, conspiraloon nonsense etc. But he's also SO confident in his beliefs that he loves that anti-Semitic picture of his rather than admitting he got it wrong. Wanker. I think I've met him in various different forms twenty times this year and I don't get out much.
Centrist bellend twitter celebrity twlldn wrote a piece about this in 2015 - I disagree with them most of the time, but you can't argue with this bit:
compare and contrast with Corbyn's statement...
The Socialism of fools. – Twll Dun – Medium
Yeah, but this was in the specific context of murals in Tower Hamlets relating to Judaism, so it's not exactly out of the blue, is it?
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Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
This is it, exactly.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
I agree with lots of what you post here with regards to naivety and that. But we should absolutely hold Labour to account, because as we have seen time and time again any of these parties can do untold damage to working class people and communities.
He’d likely have benefited from some.
scifisam
deleted
No, I mean now. In 2012 he probably was just naive - more naive than he should have been in his position, but him actually being a Nazi who hates Jewish people? Please - and that level of naivety needs to be beaten out of him by good advisors.
Some of those twitter people have actually fallen for the "Putin-loving" tag too as if Putin is anything like a leftie
HoratioCuthbert - yeah, we should hold them to account. But quite often people go too far. They criticise Labour loudly and repeatedly for things they let slide in other parties and, by doing so, help those other parties get elected. They let right-wing newspaper editors pull their strings by responding with anger to old news like this that's mysteriously resurfaced just before the local elections. It's a difficult trick to get right, criticising the people you do support while not enabling the people you don't support (waiting till after an election is a good start though), but a lot of these people don't even try. They don't give a shit if they help Tories get elected as long as they can say they stuck to their principles and held their own people to a high standard. Shame about the benefit cuts and all that of course.
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HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Hmmm, wonder if any of those might be Syrians....No, I mean now. In 2012 he probably was just naive - more naive than he should have been in his position, but him actually being a Nazi who hates Jewish people? Please - and that level of naivety needs to be beaten out of him by good advisors.
Some of those twitter people have actually fallen for the "Putin-loving" tag too as if Putin is anything like a leftie
And tbh I prefer to set my bar higher than 'well, he's not a nazi'.
Like it or not there's a rich seam of antisemitism running through the left right now. If it wasn't being weaponised against Corbyn, we would have no problem with being able to call it out and to challenge it wherever we saw it. Instead, people - invested in a Corbyn leadership of Labour - circle the wagons, minimise and ignore it, trot out bullshit whataboutery. Fuck that.
Like it or not there's a rich seam of antisemitism running through the left right now. If it wasn't being weaponised against Corbyn, we would have no problem with being able to call it out and to challenge it wherever we saw it. Instead, people - invested in a Corbyn leadership of Labour - circle the wagons, minimise and ignore it, trot out bullshit whataboutery. Fuck that.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
This is an issue with heroes as well though, isn’t it. It’s not the way.
bemused
Well-Known Member
It's an excuse, not a defence. He made a very specific comment that was entirely within the context of the art - the suggestion he didn't really look at the picture is rather lame. He'll be okay.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Probably said a terrible thing
I don't think that's true. Antisemitic tropes are a fringe interest, most people don't really know or care about them.
binka
!!!!!!!!!
I was thinking back to my year 9 history class about the Nazis and we definitely covered stuff like that
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