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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

When Reid and Hunt resigned from Copeland and Stoke Central respectively, I did propose on here that any Labour MP resigning, unnecessarily, and ahead of the General Election, should be shot. I even put up a graphic! ;)

I may reluctantly have to let Kaufman off that new rule now, I suppose. He was pretty old tbf.
 
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Wilf said:
I'm pretty certain I come from a very different political position to you, but I agree with part of this. :eek: Yes, there are no signs that Corbyn's brand of leftish social democracy is going to win any time soon - to say the least. Partly because of the permanent war launched by the right of the party, partly because even such a soft left position can't just be plonked in front of the electorate. It has to be built, there has to be communication, there has to be trust. None of this has happened - partly because of the right certainly, but partly because momentum/Corbyn/the new membership haven't created it.

But you seem to be forgetting that Brown lost in 2010 and Miliband in 2015. That brand of capital friendly politics with a veneer of 'social inclusion' has gone. Blairism was a successful politics for a period of economic growth that appealed to the middle classes and assumed the working class had nowhere else to go. Every bit as much as Austerity it has alienated working class voters and can't be put back together again. Blairism isn't there to be had - thankfully, given the damage it actually did to working class voters. Tragedy is nothing else is happening or emerging in terms of any other sort of left alternative - but the absence of a left alternative doesn't revive Blairism as a plausible position.
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Voters had had enough of Labour by 2010 and clearly weren’t ready for them again in 2015, especially under a leader who they perceived to be weak.

By the time voters are sick of the tories, not enough of them regardless of ‘class’ are going to vote for a Labour Party which they consider to be too left wing and the tories will simply win again by default.

The idea that Labour lost Copeland or that they are so far behind in the polls because of ‘a permanent war by the right’ is just plain daft. Hearing John O’Donnell blame Owen Smith for Copeland on Any Questions was excruciating.

Corbyn and his followers need to recognise that the electorate don’t want them. I know it’s become a cliché, but Labour really do need to start listening. Unity and standing by Corbyn isn’t going to win the any election.
 
J Ed said:
Labour is already committed to 'controlled' immigration and the replacement of Trident.
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Yes, my mistake, Labour did indeed agree with the renewal of Trident at the party conference, albeit in a chaotic way involving last minute changes to speeches, the punching of walls and the appointment of a unilateralist as defence spokeswoman. The electorate know that Corbyn is a committed unilateralist so they don’t trust him. (I’m against a UK independent nuclear deterrent myself by the way and always have been).

As for immigration, Labour’s policy is ambiguous to say the least.
 
William of Walworth said:
farmerbarleymow : aren't UKIP fairly weak anyway in Manc, compared to lots of other places in the North?
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From memory it is patchy - they seem to do better in the satellite towns compared to the centre. This lists the percentages for each seat - Greater Manchester: Majority Sorted Seats

Gorton is quite interesting though - they only polled 7.8% in 2015, less than Manchester Central. Gorton is relatively deprived like the satellite towns so I'd have expected them to poll higher than that.
 
William of Walworth said:
Whichever version of the Labour Party can manage to encourage better turnout because a Labour vote has some chance of improving stuff locally, would have a chance.

Don't see that happening any time soon though :( :(
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What's this mean? That you'd accept a neo-liberal Labour Party (not that it isn't that at the moment) if it was able to defeat the Conservatives?

farmerbarleymow said:
Gorton is quite interesting though - they only polled 7.8% in 2015, less than Manchester Central. Gorton is relatively deprived like the satellite towns so I'd have expected them to poll higher than that.
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Maybe down to Kaufman? He probably had more name recognition than most MPs, been in the seat forever, 'old' labour and these days on the left of the party.
 
It's a fantastic no-win situation for Nuttall; stand and there's further humiliation (probably culminating in him having to admit he's never ever been to Hillsborough) and being called a bottler if he doesn't. Love it.
 
Andrew Hertford said:
Voters had had enough of Labour by 2010 and clearly weren’t ready for them again in 2015, especially under a leader who they perceived to be weak.

By the time voters are sick of the tories, not enough of them regardless of ‘class’ are going to vote for a Labour Party which they consider to be too left wing and the tories will simply win again by default.

The idea that Labour lost Copeland or that they are so far behind in the polls because of ‘a permanent war by the right’ is just plain daft. Hearing John O’Donnell blame Owen Smith for Copeland on Any Questions was excruciating.

Corbyn and his followers need to recognise that the electorate don’t want them. I know it’s become a cliché, but Labour really do need to start listening. Unity and standing by Corbyn isn’t going to win the any election.
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Who is john o'donnell?
 
redsquirrel said:
What's this mean? That you'd accept a neo-liberal Labour Party (not that it isn't that at the moment) if it was able to defeat the Conservatives?
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Yes, that absolutely must be exactly what I meant, being such a notorious fan of neo-liberalism and Blairism on Urban ... :rolleyes:

Alternatively, you could avoid making assumptions about my political position. Thanks.
 
William of Walworth said:
Yes, that absolutely must be exactly what I meant, being such a notorious fan of neo-liberalism and Blairism on Urban ... :rolleyes:

Alternatively, you could avoid making assumptions about my political position. Thanks.
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I didn't I was asking for clarification hence the question marks. Your post is incredibly unclear as to what it is actually arguing.
 
redsquirrel : TBF my post wasn't too clear, I admit. I wasn't arguing anything really, other than vaguely suggesting that if it's going to revive itself the LP needs to offer a platform that'll genuinely improve local conditions. That has to be a left wing and anti-neoliberal platform if it's going to mean anything at all. I'm not optimistic though.
 
William of Walworth said:
TBF my post wasn't too clear, I admit. I wasn't arguing anything really, other than vaguely suggesting that if it's going to revive itself the LP needs to offer a platform that'll genuinely improve local conditions. That has to be a left wing and anti-neoliberal platform if it's going to mean anything at all. I'm not optimistic though.
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Improve local conditions for who?
 
William of Walworth said:
redsquirrel : TBF my post wasn't too clear, I admit. I wasn't arguing anything really, other than vaguely suggesting that if it's going to revive itself the LP needs to offer a platform that'll genuinely improve local conditions. That has to be a left wing and anti-neoliberal platform if it's going to mean anything at all. I'm not optimistic though.
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OK fine, the stuff about 'versions' of Labour confused me.
 
Andrew Hertford said:
Voters had had enough of Labour by 2010 and clearly weren’t ready for them again in 2015, especially under a leader who they perceived to be weak.

By the time voters are sick of the tories, not enough of them regardless of ‘class’ are going to vote for a Labour Party which they consider to be too left wing and the tories will simply win again by default.

The idea that Labour lost Copeland or that they are so far behind in the polls because of ‘a permanent war by the right’ is just plain daft. Hearing John O’Donnell blame Owen Smith for Copeland on Any Questions was excruciating.

Corbyn and his followers need to recognise that the electorate don’t want them. I know it’s become a cliché, but Labour really do need to start listening. Unity and standing by Corbyn isn’t going to win the any election.
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But that's not responding to the issues I raised. You seem to think Labour can shift policies and get a new leader, bingo, electable. It doesn't work like that. Apart from the fact that 2017 isn't 1997, economically or politically, it isn't like turning a tap on or off. You seem to find 'class' a dodgy term, but then ignore Brexit and a whole set of indicators and events that show whole swathes of Britain have become sick of the political class (particularly the bit of it that was supposed to closest to them in terms of Labour).
 
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